IN THE SUPERIOR COURT OF GWINNETT COUNTY

STATE OF GEORGIA

VS.

MICHAEL HAROLD CHAPEL

INDICTMENT NO. 93-B-1818-6

Count 1 - Murder

Count 2 - Felony Murder

Count 3 - Armed Robbery

Count 4 - Possession of a

Firearm During

Commission of a Crime

Transcript of Proceedings Before

THE HONORABLE FRED A. BISHOP, JUDGE

APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL

For the State: DANIEL J. PORTER, District Attorney

THOMAS N. DAVIS, Deputy Chief Asst. DA

SCOTT A. SMEAL, Senior Assistant DA

Gwinnett Judicial Circuit

75 Langley Drive

Lawrenceville, Georgia 30245

For the Defendant:

JOHNNY R. MOORE, Esq.

ELIZABETH VILA ROGAN, Esq.

Attorneys at Law

Post Office Box 206

Lawrenceville, Georgia 30246-0206

@y E. ATKINSON

OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER

SUPERIOR COURT OF GWINNETT COUNTY

POST OFFICE Box 5 72

AUBURN, GEORGIA 30203

(404) 822-8521

CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT

COUNSEL COPY

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Tape 1 - State's Exhibit 6.................................................................................................................................................. 1

Tape 2 - State's Exhibit 7................................................................................................................................................ 79

Tape 3 - State's Exhibit 8.............................................................................................................................................. 129

R Obrter s,: er ca a 144

TRANSCRIPT OF VIDEOTAPED STATEMENT OF

MICHAEL HAROLD CHAPEL

April 23, 1993 - 22:36:57

TaRe 1 - State's Exhibit 6

LT. LATTY: How’re you doing, buddy?

OFF. CHAPEL: All right. [Unintelligible] to get this cleared up.

LT. LATTY: That's what we're here to do.

OFF. CHAPEL: Let's do it to it.

LT. LATTY: Just have a seat right here.

OFF. CHAPEL: All right.

LT. LATTY: Did you have a rough night tonight?

OFF. CHAPEL: Not really, just a lot of calls.

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, let me get some general information here from you. Where are you living at now?

OFF. CHAPEL: 244 Park Place Drive.

INV. BURNETTE: You're still living with your wife? Y'all are still together?

OFF. CHAPEL: That's correct, Erin.

INV. BURNETTE: And your home phone number there?

OFF. CHAPEL: 513-7386.

INV. BURNETTE: Do you have a beeper?

OFF. CHAPEL: No.

INV. BURNETTE: What's the number up there at the gym?

OFF. CHAPEL: 271-8019.

INV. BURNETTE: Mobile phone?

OFF. CHAPEL: I don't have one.

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, we've been talking to a number of people tonight, and before we get started talking to you, I want to advise you of your rights. You have the right to remain silent. You understand that?

OFF. CHAPEL: Yes, I do.

INV. BURNETTE: Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. Do you understand that?

OFF. CHAPEL: I understand that.

INV. BURNETTE: You have the right to talk to a lawyer and have him present while you're being

questioned. Do you understand that?

OFF. CHAPEL: Yes, I do.

INV. BURNETTE: If you cannot afford to hire a lawyer, one will be appointed to represent you before any questioning, if you wish. Do you understand that?

OFF. CHAPEL: I understand that.

INV. BURNETTE: You can decide at any time to exercise these rights and not answer any questions or

Do you understand that?

make any statements. Do you understand that?

OFF. CHAPEL: Yes, I do.

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, we've been working on this

case now for a little bit over a week. We need to talk to you about what you've heard and the burglary report and that kind of stuff. We know that you're a good cop, that you've got a lot of sources up here in and around Buford, but I've got some questions -

OFF. CHAPEL: I understand. I understand. I really do. I feel like you [unintelligible] violator, but we've got to - it's got to be eliminated, so

INV. BURNETTE: That's right.

OFF. CHAPEL: whatever I can do.

INV. BURNETTE: Okay. Mike, tell me about the call, the original call.

OFF. CHAPEL: The original call on the 3rd of April, the first call out of - the f irst call out of the chute. It came across as a regular 42 burglary call. All right. I met with Ms. Thompson and her son Mike at the - their residence. She had stated to me that the bad guy, unknown person-slash-persons, had entered through a back door, cut a - cut a hole in the glass, raised the glass, cut the hole, reached inside, unlocked the door, made entry - made entry into the trailer, came into the trailer, went straight to her hiding spot where she had this large sum of money, pulled out half roughly half the money, and then placed the other half back inside the - her envelope, behid it in the same

spot, and then evidently left - left the trailer. I told - I told her at the time that it was - it was all bullshit, a bogus call - I mean bogus break-in, that somebody who knew where the money was took half the money, and I thought it was going to be Mike, her son. And she basically has told me that, well, she didn't want to press charges against him, she just wanted him scared into giving up the money that was missing, and I told her I'd do what I could to help her. So I talked - first I talked to her about the situation. Then I talked - went outside and talked with Mike, and then I brought them together and told him in front of her that I thought the whole thing was, you know, basically bullshit, that he had the money, and, you know, he didn't give up any indication that he was going to go one way or the other until we got back outside and I was leaving, and I told him that, you know, it would be the right thing to give it up and he acted like he sort of kind of understood, just by his body just acknowledged it. She kept reiterating she didn't want to prosecute, and that was basically my first initial contact with her.

INV. BURNETTE: Okay. Did you - did you look at

the back door?

OFF. CHAPEL: Oh, yeah, I looked at the back door.

Just a little old circle cut in it. Just a little old

circle cut in it.

INV. BURNETTE: Did she show you the hiding place?

OFF. CHAPEL: Well, she didn't have to. I - I called it out. I told Mike where it was at, because he was sitting there, and every time the money was mentioned held look right where the hiding spot was, and I said, 'It's in this chest of drawers right here,' I was sitting beside, somewhere in there. And he went and made faces like I surprised him, and I - she eventually pulled it out and showed it to me, yeah, she did. She pulled - it was a lingerie drawer. She pulled it out and said it was taped to the back side of it, and -

INV. BURNETTE: And did she tell you anything about where the money came from?

OFF. CHAPEL: At the end of our conversation, when I was leaving, I - you know, inside that trailer was just such squalor I just couldn't - you know, I couldn't see anybody having money like that and living like they were. And she said - I think she said that she had had it - had had it in the bank. Well, she did say she had it in the bank, and she pulled it out to avoid a lawsuit or so somebody couldn't get it. And then she said that she had inherited it from somebody dying. Her boyfriend died. That's who it was.

INV. BURNETTE: Do you remember how much total money she said she had?

OFF. CHAPEL: She said she had 14K, fourteen thousand. She had - she had an envelope in her purse that had what I assumed to be the rest of the money. It was ju st a big pile of money.

INV. BURNETTE: Did she count it for you?

OFF. CHAPEL: She - she pulled the money out. She didn't - I don't remember her counting it, though.

INV. BURNETTE: Did you make any suggestions to her about what she should do with the money that she had left?

OFF. CHAPEL: I told her the best place for it was in a bank. Other than that, I told her to hide it someplace where only she knew about it if that would make her feel better. She was real afraid about this pending lawsuit getting a hold to it.

INV. BURNETTE: Did - after your initial contact, when is the next time you had contact with her?

OFF. CHAPEL: On the 4th of April - on the 4th of April I had contact with her, but, again, just - I had stopped a car up on Craig Drive, and I stopped and asked her if she - she was at the door, and I asked her if she'd recovered the money, if Mike had done the right thing. And she said - the best that I can recall she just said she - he hadn't done it, that she thought that

he - he wasn't going to give it up. Again I asked her if she wanted to prosecute and she said no, but I told her that give it some time and see what he would do.

INV. BURNETTE: Do you remember about what time that contact was?

OFF. CHAPEL: Well, we had it the other day on the log sheet. I don't remember exactly what time of day it was. It was right there after the pull-over.

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, going back to the log sheet on the day of the initial call, why was that call not logged?

I know

OFF. CHAPEL: Jack, I

slackness on my behalf.

INV. BURNETTE: Uh-huh.

OFF. CHAPEL: I know what it looks like, but it's tal, you know, inattention to my - my - myself .

just total, you know, inattention to my - my - myself. The only way I can - the only way I can, you know, justify the whole call is that I told Rooster about it, about the crazy woman didn't want to prosecute. There was no intent to leave it off the log sheet.

INV. BURNETTE: You know how long I've known you?

OFF. CHAPEL: Excuse me?

INV. BURNETTE: You know how long I've known you?

OFF. CHAPEL: A long damn time. You raised me here in this department.

INV. BURNETTE: You know how bad it hurts my feelings to sit here and talk to you about this thing?

OFF. CHAPEL: It's killing me, too, Jack, but it' got to be done because when you get - you know, you can move on. But I know - I know the circumstances of what I - on my behalf, and it's killing me that we're having to have this con- - both of you, you know, I mean, it's -

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, do you remember that first day when you went over there and both Ms. Thompson and her son's cars were in the driveway?

OFF. CHAPEL: There were two cars in the driveway, I believe. I want to say a blue one and a brown one.

INV. BURNETTE: Do you remember what they were?

OFF. CHAPEL: Well, Ms. Thompson's was a - was a Cadillac, but there was a car behind the house, too, but

I don't remember what that was. But Ms. Thompson's was a Cadillac, and I want to say Mike's was a - a blue Buick.

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, when you took that burglary report, would there have been any reason for you to write down a description of those cars or a tag number on the burglary report?

OFF. CHAPEL: On the burglary report? I don't

know. I don't recall. I may - I may have ran a tag, but that's may - I may have - may have I do that just about everywhere I go.

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, did you ever have any reason to'stop Ms. Thompson?

OFF. CHAPEL: No.

INV. BURNETTE: You never stopped her to talk to her about anything at all?

OFF. CHAPEL: Not that I recall, no.

INV. BURNETTE: I'm talking about prior to April 15th.

OFF. CHAPEL: No.

INV. BURNETTE: Tell me - Steve asked you about the other night - about the contact you had with her regarding the hundred dollar bill and the money wrapper.

OFF. CHAPEL: When we were - she wanted to know what her options were, and bluffing, I told her the only - only other recourse she had other than prosecuting Mike for the - for stealing the money would be just to bluff the boy, bluff him on some kind of a scam, like telling him that we had fingerprints on the - on the envelope, on the drawer or the - on the - the money bands or something, the hundred dollar bill - tell her - I told her that the hundred dollar bills were traceable. Let it be known that that was happening. If any - trying to get some kind of response out of that boy.

INV. BURNETTE: When was this that you told her that, Mike?

OFF. CHAPEL: I can't honestly say if it was the initial or the second or on my phone conversations with her.

INV. BURNETTE: How many phone conversations did you have with Ms. Thompson?

OFF. CHAPEL: One that I can confirm. Possibly two. I don't know. I don't remember talking to her.

INV. BURNETTE: When were they made?

OFF. CHAPEL: She called the precinct one day.

She called the precinct one day. I can't say what day it was, but Rooster handed me the message to call her back, and I called her right back. And she may have called me at the gym. I don't know.

INV. BURNETTE: How is the gym doing?

OFF. CHAPEL: Holding its own. It does all right.

Keeps me out of trouble.

INV. BURNETTE: Are you making any money with it?

OFF. CHAPEL: We ain't never made no money with it. We just sort of pay the bills, and that's about it.

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, what's your - tell me a little bit about your personal financial situation.

OFF. CHAPEL: It's stable. I mean, nothing to nothing to worry about.

INV. BURNETTE: No bills going unpaid?

OFF. CHAPEL: No. We're pretty much caught up on everything.

INV. BURNETTE: Howls your dad?

OFF. CHAPEL: He's fine.

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, when is the last contact you had with Michael?

OFF. CHAPEL: I talked to him in front of the Subway. I think we decided it was on April - April the 7th. It was on April the 7th, and it was after dark. It

he came out - he came outside the Subway, and I was - he came out - he came outside the Subway, and I told him that there was a criminal investigation fixing to take place on the theft, and that may be the day that I talked to her on the phone, that day.

INV. BURNETTE: What - what was his reaction?

OFF. CHAPEL: Again, he was just passive. He didn't - he didn't - no response whatsoever. He just - like he didn't care. He just didn't - I couldn't get no response out of him. He never made no verbal response.

INV. BURNETTE: The last time you talked with Ms. Thompson, what was her attitude?

OFF. CHAPEL: She just kept saying she wanted her money back. She wanted that - her main concern, she wanted that money back.

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INV. BURNETTE: Did she ever tell you what she had decided to do with the money?

OFF. CHAPEL: No, she never did, and I never asked her. I told her what she should do with it the first date, and that was it.

INV. BURNETTE: Do you have any idea where Ms. Thompson worked?

OFF. CHAPEL: I think she said she makes contact lenses.

INV. BURNETTE: Do you know when she worked?

OFF. CHAPEL: Just what I've read in the paper and what I heard -

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, you've heard about how we found the car down there [unintelligible]. What do you think about that?

OFF. CHAPEL: I think that it was obvious she knew what somebody - she knew somebody. That's - that's pretty much obvious.

INV. BURNETTE: Do you think they flagged her down or what?

OFF. CHAPEL: It could be. It's a possibility.

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, on - tell me about your day on April the 15th. It was tax day that day.

OFF. CHAPEL: Tax day.

INV. BURNETTE: Starting whenever you got up.

OFF. CHAPEL: When I got up. I usually get up at nine-thirty, and I get dressed in police uniform, I drive to the precinct, I get dressed in my gym clothes, and I drive to the gym.

INV. BURNETTE: Was you at the gym all day?

OFF. CHAPEL: I was at the gym all day till two o'clock, till time to go on duty.

INV. BURNETTE: What time do you generally open up there, Mike? Do you have a set time?

OFF. CHAPEL: What? Excuse me?

INV. BURNETTE: What time do you generally open up

there?

OFF. CHAPEL: Well, I get there anywhere from ten to ten-thirty, and the gym is usually open because I have people that come in in the morning that have keys that open it f or me, but I - my set hours are ten till nine.

INV. BURNETTE: Who generally opens the gym, these people that you have do it for you sometime?

OFF. CHAPEL: It changes daily. See, I've got a shiftworker's special, like they come in - like Makita workers, they come in, and they work out from six till eight in the morning, and then somebody comes in at eight-thirty from Heraeus and like that. It's staggered.

So it's usually open there. it's usually open when I get

INV. BURNETTE: Are you in that business with somebody or is it just you?

OFF. CHAPEL: No, that's it. It's just me. Sole proprietor.

INV. BURNETTE: Okay. So you went to work at two,two-thirty?

OFF. CHAPEL: Two-thirty.

INV. BURNETTE: So what happened then?

OFF. CHAPEL: It was a routine day. It was pretty much - until the tornado warnings started.

INV. BURNETTE: About what time was that?

OFF. CHAPEL: It was getting dark. It was about eight, eight-thirty.

INV. BURNETTE: What did y'all do?

OFF. CHAPEL: We huddled up, me and Rooster and Reddy.

Reddy. We - we first started at the church on Main Street, and then we went to the fire department to watch the storms coming in.

INV. BURNETTE: What time did y'all go to the fire department?

OFF. CHAPEL: Let's see. It would have to be around eight-thirty, nine o'clock.

INV. BURNETTE: How long did y'all stay at the fire department, Mike?

OFF. CHAPEL: Until

INV. BURNETTE: What is that?

OFF. CHAPEL: You hear a beep?

INV. BURNETTE: Yeah.

OFF. CHAPEL: I don't hear it. I don't have my hearing aids. We stayed till, I guess, a quarter to ten, and I had a call. I had to go to Pebble - Pebble some kind of 86 over on Pebble - Pebblebrook. It may have been on Arden Drive.

INV. BURNETTE: So you left from the precinct, the fire station?

OFF. CHAPEL: Right, fire station precinct.

INV. BURNETTE: Did you leave directly when you got the call or did you just mess around?

OFF. CHAPEL: I went - I went via Moreno Street to check on the gym and then on to Arden Drive, and I was there, probably, ten or fifteen minutes there.

INV. BURNETTE: But what I'm asking you, Mike, is did you mess around at the precinct or did you just go straight out and get in your car and leave?

OFF. CHAPEL: I went out and got in my car and drove - drove off. I got the call, Jack - I had left - left the fire station and was on the way to the gym like I always do at the same time to make sure

always - like I always do at the same time to make that it's locked up, when I got the call, because I arrived on Arden Drive right at about ten o'clock.

INV. BURNETTE: Did you have - other than receiving the call and going 10-7, did you have any other radio traffic?

OFF. CHAPEL: I talked to Danny Smith on the radio. He called me.

INV. BURNETTE: What did Danny want?

OFF. CHAPEL: He wanted to tell me that the warrants for Peaches were - would be on his desk. I was

huntinghunting - we'd been hunting her hot and heavy. And I couldn't tell you what time that was. I don't remember.

INV. BURNETTE: How long did you stay at the call,Mike?

OFF. CHAPEL: Ten or fifteen minutes, I believe. I don't recall the exact time.

INV. BURNETTE: When you finished did you go 10-8 immediately on the air?

OFF. CHAPEL: Yeah. Well, probably within the neighborhood, I'm sure -

INV. BURNETTE: Did you log the call?

OFF. CHAPEL: Sure. Sure did. I - well, I hope I did. I spoke with the people there. I was there. People from New Jersey.

INV. BURNETTE: Did you get any more calls that night that you remember? What else did you do after you left Arden Drive?

I was there.

OFF. CHAPEL: Went to the precinct.

INV. BURNETTE: is that basically where you stayed the rest of the night?

OFF. CHAPEL: Oh, yeah, because I left early well, I didn't leave early. We just got out early. Me and Reddy headed southbound on 20.

INV. BURNETTE: Did y'all go somewhere together?

OFF. CHAPEL: We head - we come down 20 always together.

INV. BURNETTE: Going home?

OFF. CHAPEL: Going home, because I remember I got home in time to catch the news, just about.

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, when is the first time you learned of Ms. Thompson's death?

OFF. CHAPEL: About - that it was Ms. Thompson or that there'd been a killing? I'd heard there was a killing on the radio, I think, on the AM radio. I'm not

And I didn't

sure. That morning, or the morning after. And I didn't hear it was Ms. Thompson till the half hour I called you, because Rooster called me at - at the gym, because I was - he leaves about an hour before I leave to go to the precinct, and he called me to tell me that it was - that it was Ms. Thompson.

INV. BURNETTE: How did Rooster know about Ms.Thompson?

OFF. CHAPEL: I don't know. He was - he was at the precinct.

INV. BURNETTE: No, I'm talking about how did he know [unintelligible] -

OFF. CHAPEL: Oh, of her? My routine is when, you know - we've been together a long time, and I pretty much tell him everything, every call, you know, [unintelligible] person and the circumstances, and I told him, you know, all about the situation with her and everything else.

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, when Rooster called you and you came down, did you talk with Captain Cantrell? I take it that y'all did.

OFF. CHAPEL: He's never around to talk with. I don't think I did, Jack.

INV. BURNETTE: Well, the reason I say, if you will remember, he called me and then put you on the telephone.

OFF. CHAPEL: Well, I don't remember. Did he call or Rooster call or - I remember trying to call somebody that was in charge of the case. I don't even - I can't

he was at

even remember what we said now.

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, do you remember being up on Peachtree Industrial Boulevard that night?

OFF. CHAPEL: That night, no.

he was at

OFF. CHAPEL: I don't know. He was - he was at the precinct.

INV. BURNETTE: No, I'm talking about how did he know [unintelligible] -

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, when Rooster called you and you came down, did you talk with Captain Cantrell? I take it that y'all did.

OFF. CHAPEL: He's never around to talk with. I don't think I did, Jack.

INV. BURNETTE: Well, the reason I say, if you will remember, he called me and then put you on the

telephone.

OFF. CHAPEL: Well, I don't remember. Did he call or Rooster call or - I remember trying to call somebody that was in charge of the case. I don't even - I can't even remember what we said now.

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, do you remember being up on Peachtree Industrial Boulevard that night?

OFF. CHAPEL: That night, no.

INV. BURNETTE: You never went up there?

OFF. CHAPEL: Never went up there.

INV. BURNETTE: For any reason?

OFF. CHAPEL: Any reason. With the weather coming in, we just holed up.

INV. BURNETTE: No one was working up in Buford that night but you, Rooster -

OFF. CHAPEL: Reddy. And Reddy.

INV. BURNETTE: - and Reddy.

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, I've - I wasn't going to lie to you. I thought you was a good cop. Still think you're a good cop. I don't know if Ild've been any prouder if it'd been John or Brad, but, God, I've got an awful lot of questions.

OFF. CHAPEL: Ask me, Jack.

INV. BURNETTE: You've got - I'll be back in a minute.I'll be back in a

[Investigator Burnette leaves the room.]

LT. LATTY: He thinks a lot of you. Let me

LT. LATTY: He thinks a lot of you. Let me - let me pick it up here. I've been listening. You know, I've never worked with you. But I've watched you through the years ever since you've been here, and I've always been impressed with your work, and I've always been impressed with your attitude. I spent a lot of years up there in Buford, and I kind of admire people that go out there and, you know, kick butts and take names because that's what I always tried to do. I'm sure I never done it as effectively as you do. I wasn't quite as big as you are, for one thing. But I always admired that, and I always tried to keep up with what was going in Buford, and I constantly heard your name up there, you know. People knew you, that know you, they respect you, they trust you. You're kind of an heir apparent up there, you know, and after I left up there. I always felt like I had some impact up there. Loved to work up there. You can talk to people. They'll talk to you in the right situation if they trust you. And you did that. But I'm going to be - I'm going to be a little more frank with you than Jack's been. Jack's your friend; he loves you.

OFF. CHAPEL: I wish somebody would be.

LT. LATTY: I'm going to be frank with you, okay? I think that Is - I think that I owe you that. I think I should do that. First of all, when we found this car up there - and you've been around. You've been doing police work a long time. You've got a lot of insight. You're bright. I know you've got a high IQ. I'm familiar with that and know that you got a high average IQ, and that that's beneficial, but, you know, it's street smarts

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. LATTY: and spending time out there is what makes you smart, what makes you understand things, you're able to analyze things. You can do that. So I want you to tell me - I'm going to give you some facts, and I want you to help me here. We found this car on Friday morning, as you know, up there. We were called somewhere around eight-thirty. You know, the paramedics got there, the Sugar Hill city marshall got there and some other people. There were a bunch of people working there. I went on up there with Jack.

When we got up there, the car was sitting there at the entrance to Gwinnco Muffler, facing in, on the right side of the driveway, maybe just a little less than halfway way up the driveway. Okay? And here's a car with this woman sitting in the driver's seat. She's seatbelted in. Her doors are locked. Her window is down. She's shot in the head. Okay? The ignition is on. The car is not running. The battery is dead. There's thirteen gallons of gas in the tank. It's got a flat tire on the left front. Okay. What do you see there? You said earlier

OFF. CHAPEL: I -

LT. LATTY: ou s

that you said earlier that you agreed

OFF. CHAPEL: Oh, I

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LT. LATTY: she knew whoever it was. She trusted whoever it was.

OFF. CHAPEL: Exactly.

LT. LATTY: She rolled the window down. What do you think happened there to her?

OFF. CHAPEL: It looks like - it looks like a c pulled her over.

LT. LATTY: Sure does.

OFF. CHAPEL: I - I understand that.

LT. LATTY: Okay.

OFF. CHAPEL: I mean

LT. LATTY: Let's go a step further, Mike.

OFF. CHAPEL: Yeah. Please do.

LT. LATTY: Her purse is missing. She's got a receipt in her lap from Wade Ford, folded up in her lap.

Her purse is gone.

it looks like a cop

her purse is gone. Now, you get pulled over by a policeman, you pull the sunvisor down - some of us stuf f stuff like the insurance card above the sunvisor - you reach in the glove compartment to get your insurance card or whatever, and you drag this thing out. It winds up in your lap. It's dark out there. You don't know it's there. You're concentrating on what's going there.

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. LATTY: You see the scenario at the scene.

Okay? It looks like a traffic stop, a PO, okay?

OFF. CHAPEL: Exactly.

LT. LATTY: All right. We'll continue on from there. The crime lab identifies the rounds. We recovered both rounds. The crime lab, Kelly Fite, the best in the country, examined them, tells us what they are, tells us the type of ammunition, tells us the type of weapon that fired it, so on and so forth. You know how that goes. Good detailed information on those rounds. We were fortunate to recover both those rounds. Recovered them from the car.

The car's got a flat tire. That tire hasn't run over a nail. That tire has been stuck in the sidewall. We know what it's been stuck with. The tire was stuck at that location. The tire - the tire didn't go flat. The tire had not been run on the rim. The tire went flat in that position. It was never - the car was never moved again after that because somebody stuck it in the sidewall. Okay? And we know the type instrument that was used. Okay? You with me?

OFF. CHAPEL: Yeah.

LT. LATTY: All right. Obviously, the tire was stuck to flatten it as a ruse to make it look like something else other than what it was.

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. LATTY: Okay. So what's the next logical step in the investigation? you've done investigations. You've not done it from this -

OFF. CHAPEL: Yeah.

LT. LATTY:

LATTY: perspective, but you've done investigations over and over again up there. You've done them well. Done them very well. Been very effective with them. You know what comes next. We go down there and set up the road checks.

OFF. CHAPEL: Right.

LT. LATTY: You were down there with us the first night helping out, stopping those cars and checking with those people.

OFF. CHAPEL: Yeah, I was.

LT. LATTY: Remember the story that started coming coming in that night, the story that we started hearing from these people who were traveling up

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. LATTY:

LT. LATTY: - and down that road? You remember.

OFF. CHAPEL: Yeah.

LT. LATTY: They saw a patrol car there.

OFF. CHAPEL: That's what I heard.

LT. LATTY: Large numbers of people. Yeah, it's well known. Large numbers of people started telling us. They were very apprehensive, you know, because somebody's been murdered here -

OFF. CHAPEL: Yeah.

LT. LATTY: 'Gosh, we saw a patrol car there, police officer there.' Police officers are potential potentially dangerous. They're armed. They can stop you. They can find you.

So these people began to talk to us. It takes we only concluded these road checks last night. We did them for four nights total. We found a large number of people who came by there at various times on Thursday night and who saw various things. Some people came by and they saw a patrol car sitting up at Gwinnco.

car si ing up at Gwinnco. Some of them saw it with the lights on. Some of them saw it with the lights off. All of them knew it was a patrol car. Some of them couldn't tell us what department it was. Some of them could. And they kept talking about a yellow stripe or yellow stripes on the side of this car that would reflect -

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. LATTY: or illuminate as their headlights hit them. Some of them told us about seeing the car, a patrol car, a Gwinnett County patrol car, sitting there with the interior light on and could see the officer sitting in the car. Okay? Others said later on: We drove by there. We saw what we thought was somebody getting a ticket. It was a stop. The police officer had a car stopped there. Some people said the police officer had the car stopped right here where we found Ms.Thompson in her car. Okay? Now -

OFF. CHAPEL: That's what I've heard.

LT. LATTY: - that upset us and worried us.

OFF. CHAPEL: Well, it should.

LT. LATTY: It does all of us. Okay?

OFF. CHAPEL: It does me, too.

LT. LATTY: All right. It was obvious to us - we started working on these times to nail these times down. We came - we came down with good, solid times from these people. We got the time frame narrowed down. The patrol car may have been there as early as eight-thirty. Probably not, a little later, sitting in the Gwinnco parking lot or in the drive

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. LATTY: facing the road. Some of them could see the officer sitting in there, could see him with his raincoat on, big yellow raincoat. One person mistook it for a T-shirt, I guess, because it looked light-colored to him, okay?

OFF. CHAPEL: It was raining that night.

LT. LATTY: Okay. The best witnesses who saw the most said that they saw the car stopped by the officer somewhere between nine forty-five and ten o'clock. No doubt in their mind that that's when she was stopped there

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. LATTY: and that's when she was killed. Okay? Because we found people later on all up into the morning, till the time it was discovered there was a dead body in the car, who saw that car sitting there. Okay?

OFF. CHAPEL: Yeah. I'm with you.

LT. LATTY: All right. Now, some other information started to come in, and, of course, we checked - you know, we checked log sheets, and we checked -

OFF. CHAPEL: Yeah.

LT. LATTY:

LT. LATTY: - call cards and so forth, and that's routine stuff. You do it all the time.

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. LATTY: We've got this MVT thing now, and we checked the MVT. We know that at eight-twenty on the 15th you ran a 1028 on a tag, Pappa Kilo Kilo 228, on the MVT. You remember where you run that car at about eight twenty?

OFF. CHAPEL: I don't even -

LT. LATTY: Now, you said earlier you was up at the church with Stone and Reddy, but you were running a ten - you run a 1028 on a car at eight-twenty somewhere.

We don't know where that was at this point. You don't recall?

to?

OFF. CHAPEL: I don't

what's the tag come back

LT. LATTY: It's comes back to a Toyota.

OFF. CHAPEL: Lieutenant, I

LT. LATTY: A 177 Toyota.

OFF. CHAPEL: - I run - I run tags every

LT. LATTY: I know.

OFF. CHAPEL: You pull all of them, you'll see I run probably fifty a day on that thing.

LT. LATTY: Okay.

was --

LT. LATTY: Okay. The only other MVT traffic you had was at ten fifty-two that night. You discussed with somebody -- I believe it was 321, whoever 321 Charlie

OFF. CHAPEL: Yeah, Reddy.

LT. LATTY: Reddy? You discussed a 44 on Jimmy Carter Boulevard and was asking about a 78. Do you recall that? You probably were off duty then.

OFF. CHAPEL: Yeah. We were off duty. We were already going home.

LT. LATTY: Now, people began to contact us with even more ominous information. Close friends and associates of the victim, Ms. Thompson

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. LATTY:

LT. LATTY: tell us that she had discussed with them how you were investigating her case. She discussed you with them by name, Mike Chapel, big guy, good-looking guy, good-looking guy, big muscle-bound guy. That's obviously you.

OFF. CHAPEL: Yeah.

LT. LATTY: Reddy's muscle-bound, but he's not good-looking, so it had to be you.

OFF. CHAPEL: Yeah, I was dealing with her.

LT. LATTY: Yes, you were, and you've told us that, but they tell us a different story from what you've told us. They tell us that you arranged - were arranging to meet with her that night. They tell us that she had related to people how you had followed her, had f ollowed her down PIB and - when she went to work, and one night followed her as far as Suwanee, and one night followed her as - almost to Duluth, and one night you stopped her and talked with her for a minute OFF. CHAPEL: She's saying that?

LT. LATTY: on her way to work. She was telling various people this. Now, she also told them that you told her - that you told her - and she told more than one person this - that in regard to the hundred dollar bill and the band that you were talking about, the money bands, that you told her that you needed to meet with her and compare serial numbers with the money that she had left.

OFF. CHAPEL: No, that

LT. LATTY: Okay?

OFF. CHAPEL: I never told her that, none whatsoever.

LT. IATTY: Okay. A number of people say that. It's detailed information. It's detailed information. You see why we're here?

OFF. CHAPEL: I - I

LT. LATTY: You see the - you see the gravity you see the gravity of this situation?

OFF. CHAPEL: Yeah.

LT. LATTY: Do you see why that I'm sitting here talking to you like this? And like Jack, I don't like to do it. I don't like to do it, but it's - it's something that has to be done. It's something that has to be done because I'm fixing to hit you with the last piece of information.

OFF. CHAPEL: Please do.

LT. LATTY: You were seen there. You've been identified there.

OFF. CHAPEL: At Gwinnco.

LT. LATTY: At Gwinnco.

OFF. CHAPEL: I don't see how.

LT. LATTY: You've been identified, with a flashlight, standing by the driver's door of that car, looking inside the car, wearing your yellow rain gear, and these people who saw you there proceeded on, not thinking anything about it, proceeded on northbound on PIB. You pulled out behind them. You got that call at nine fifty-six on Arden Way.

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. IATTY: You pulled out. As they were continuing up PIB, you pulled up to them at the light at First Avenue, you paused or stopped for the light, and then you shot on through it. You proceeded northbound on PIB to Highway 20. It looked - they thought you were going to turn right on Highway 20. You proceeded on through Highway 20 northbound on PIB.

OFF. CHAPEL: Me.

LT. LATTY: You.

OFF. CHAPEL: Well, they're wrong. Absolutely mistaken. That is not me.

LT. LATTY: Now, you tell us - you're telling us that you were with Reddy, and you were with Stone.

You're telling us that somewhere around eight-thirty you met with them at the church on Main Street.

OFF. CHAPEL: Eight, eight-thirty.

LT. LATTY: Eight-thirty. You tell us that after that you went to the fire department, and there y'all stayed listening to the weather, discussing the weather, until you receive this call, or you had just left to go check on your gym -

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

it?

LT. LATTY:

when you got the call. Which was

OFF. CHAPEL: Before I got the call.

LT. LATTY: You were already on the way to the gym before you got the call?

OFF. CHAPEL: It put me - it would've put me on

OFF. CHAPEL: It put me - it would've put me on the on the road when I got the call.

LT. LATTY: Okay. Now, what are they going to tell us tonight? Because we got people up there now interviewing them. You understand?

OFF. CHAPEL: I understand.

LT. LATTY: Everybody is being interviewed.

OFF. CHAPEL: They'll tell you the same thing.

LT. LATTY: They're going to tell us you were

there?

OFF. CHAPEL: Exactly. I mean, as circumstantial as this is, it don't look good, but -

LT. LATTY: It's not circumstantial, Mike. Let me tell you it's not circumstantial when somebody picks you out of a photo lineup and said, 'That's the officer I saw

standing by that car, that passed me at a high rate of speed,, probably going to the call on Arden Drive. That's not circumstantial. You are looking at a murder charge, Mike.

OFF. CHAPEL: I - I realize that, Lieutenant.

LT. LATTY: Armed robbery and murder.

OFF. CHAPEL: What can I say?

LT. LATTY: Tell me the truth.

OFF. CHAPEL: That is the truth, Lieutenant.

LT. LATTY: Listen, this woman - it's

LT. LATTY: Listen, this woman - it's - it's absolutely unfathomable to us that this could've happened this way. When this information started coming to us, there's no way we wanted to believe it. We said, you know, there's some officer up there, he's writing a report, you know, it's routine, he just doesn't know about it, and he hasn't come forward to tell us because he doesn't realize it's relevant. He may not realize that's where the murder occurred, depending on who it was. We've been looking for this officer. We've checked not only this department, we've checked all the other departments, the sheriff's department, we've even checked Hall County, wanting to find the police officer that was in that patrol car at that location that night at the time that this woman was killed or right there at it. Do you see what I'm saying?

OFF. CHAPEL: I understand -

LT. LATTY: That officer has not been found. He has not been identified. He has not come forward. There's only one reason why that he would not come forward, Mike, because he committed that - that crime. But let me explain to you - let me explain something to you. It doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense.

None of us want to believe - wanted to believe that you could've been there, that you could've done this, and we kept trying to leave that door open and said, 'It couldn't be the Mike Chapel we all know, respect and love. It couldn't be. Mike Chapel couldn't have done this.' But every time we tried to deny it and say no, you know, that we tried to close that door on you - we didn't ever want to get to the point of having to talk to you about it any more than we already had done; we had no choice - something else came up. We kept doing that road check up there hoping something else was going to come up. The more we done the road check, the more we realized it was not only a patrol car up there, but it was a white male officer with brown hair, a very large, muscular officer in that car. We couldn't account for you anywhere else. We've tried, and we can't account for you anywhere else. And then, lo and behold, today you're picked out of a photo lineup. We need to know why, how.

None of us want to believe

OFF. CHAPEL: Lieutenant, I did not kill no one. That's - I've told you everything I know about the situation. Granted, it's fucked up. I don't know what else to tell you. That's the truth. I don't know what

to tell you now, but -

LT. LATTY: Mike, could it be - could it be that you arranged to meet with her there to discuss this case further and that she reacted to you in some kind of violent or threatening way, you panicked, you've trained, you've been in the Marine Corps, you've been trained year after year, you've been on the SWAT team, you've prepared all of your life. All of your life has been spent in preparation of your - your physical abilities, the ability to defend yourself, the ability to defend other people, the ability to enforce the law. Could it have been that something got out of hand right there and you reacted because she did something threatening or you thought you were being threatened, and then you said, 'My gosh, my God, I don't think I can explain this'? I mean nobody wants to believe that you'd go up there and kill this woman to rob her.

OFF. CHAPEL: Of course not. I don't know what to say. I didn't do it. I wasn't there. It - I wasn't there.

LT. LATTY: You wasn't where you said you were.

OFF. CHAPEL: Where?

LT. LATTY: You're not where you said you were. That alibi is not going to hold up. As soon as we talk with these people tonight, Mike, that alibi is gone.

OFF. CHAPEL: I'm

OFF. CHAPEL: I'm - good. I'm glad of it. We're going to get this settled tonight, because that's where I was, that's what I was doing, that's where I went, that's what I did. It's as simple as that. Lieutenant, I don't know what more to tell you. That's exactly where I was and what I was doing. It's as simple as that. I would in the circumstances - I -

LT. IATTY: Let's go back over it. Let's go back over it, because I want you to understand why we're here tonight in this room in this environment having this discussion.

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. LATTY: You get a call on April the 3rd to.her house, a 42 call. You go over there. She alleges a 42, and money's been taken. It's pretty obvious to everybody Michael's the dirtbag fag that took it. Okay? I mean he's - he's a low-rent dirtbag and faggot.

OFF. CHAPEL: Right.

LT. LATTY: And he was stealing from his mama because he's too sorry to work and make a living for himself. You knew that. You were smart enough to know

that. It didn't take you five seconds to look at that and realize that he had taken that money because no burglar takes half of it. We all know that. It took you five seconds to explain to her what her problem was. But you don't write a report. Now, that can be explained away because I've gone to calls and didn't write reports, made a mistake not writing a report.

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. LATTY: Sometimes it would come back to haunt me; a lot of times it didn't. Sometimes it's a judgmental thing.

OFF. CHAPEL: Exactly.

LT. LATTY: Okay. So you don't write a report. Reasonable. Sounds reasonable. You talk to this woman about what the possible solutions to her problem are., what the possible alternatives are, and you go on your way. But, now, when we asked you about this the other day, you kept telling us this woman's a 24. I believe you said a fucking 24. You say it was a bullshit call. There was nothing to it. It was a domestic. And yet you keep on and on and on for a long period of time following up on this.

Now, I know you've followed up on a lot of cases. You do it well. Okay? You talked to Michael at least twice. You've told us that. Michaells confirmed that.

That day she made the call, you talked to him. You talked to him three days later, four days later at the Subway where he worked about stealing his mamals money.

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. LATTY: But, now, you also knew that she had kept this other money, that she had this cash money. You told us a while ago you saw it. It was in her purse. You saw it. She showed it to you. You say you didn't count it or handle it, but she showed it to you; as we used to say, a wad of money that'd choke a horse.

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. LATTY: She showed you this. You knew she had that money. Okay? You continued to pursue this case to the point that you were seen sitting up at the car wash on 20 about the time that she would travel that way going to work. Okay? Following her down the highway, pretty well - not way out of your zone, but into Suwanee and possibly into Duluth. You stop her one night and discuss it with her. You talk about the hundred dollar bill that you recovered. You talk about the money bands. Now, you say that you told her, 'I'm going to use this to bluff Michael,' but when she talked to her friends about it, numerous friends, she never one time talked about bluffing Michael. She said - she told those people that you were going to make an arrest by the weekend, that you

wanted to proceed with it, you wanted to get a warrant by the weekend. She said that you were going to compare those numbers, get with her, compare those numbers, and that would be the conclusive probable cause you needed to take a warrant. Nowhere - now, you say you talked to Stone. You told Stone about these exchanges, these encounters, with Ms. Thompson and Michael. We're going Chief White's talking to Stone right this minute, I'm sure -

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. LATTY: to get his version of these things. You never once document anything. You never document anything. You're spending all this time on this. You never once document a thing. But her tag number, you had her tag number. You say that you routinely run tags, but it's a little bit unusual, as prolific a tag-checker as you are, that you would have her tag number, and she's supposed to be a 24, 86 involved somebody whols bothering you. You see the problems?

OFF. CHAPEL: Exactly.

LT. LATTY: Now, how do you explain that patrol car down there? How do you explain a couple of dozen people seeing that patrol car down there, seeing a Gwinnett County patrol car down there, blue stripe down the side, gold stripes on each side of it, it says

Gwinnett County Police on the side? We've narrowed it down further. White male officer in the car, dark hair, brown hair, big guy, big fellow, sitting there with his raincoat on. Makes sense you'd have your raincoat on because it was raining that night.

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. IATTY: Probably about everybody did. If they're smart, they did, unless they were - like I used to do and sit in the precinct and let the poor old officers do t,he work, you know? You're sitting there with a raincoat on. People keep seeing that. There was a Gwinnett County police car there. There was a large white male officer in that police car there. The witnesses, numerous witnesses, have established that fact. Who is that large white male officer with brown hair sitting there with his raincoat on in that Gwinnett County police car at the time just before and at the time that Ms. Thompson is shot and killed?

Nobody's come forward to tell us, 'I was there on an area check.' Nobody's come forward to tell us - and we've checked with everybody, traffic, you name it, people working part-time jobs, you name it - to say, 'I stopped a car there, I stopped to check on a 10461 or 'I PO'd a car there,, whatever. No tickets were written. Nobody knows anything about it, but we know that car was

there, and we know that large officer was there in that

car.

OFF. CHAPEL: And they know it was me.

LT. LATTY: One of those witnesses picked you out of a lineup and said it was you, and that not only were you there, but the one who picked you out of the lineup says, Mike, that you were standing there shining your light inside that car.

OFF. CHAPEL: Inside a car.

LT. LATTY: Ms. Thompson's car.

OFF. CHA.PEL: Ms. Thompson's car.

LT. LATTY: When you sped by them, stopped at the light, they saw you again, and you proceeded on. Let me tell you how sure they were. The photo lineup was showed them; you had a mustache. They said, 'That night he didn't have a mustache. He was clean-shaved.' Mike, we need to know what happened -

OFF. CHAPEL: Lieutenant, I've told you everything that happened that night.

LT. LATTY: No, you haven't.

OFF. CHAPEL: Everything. Everything that happened that night.

LT. LATTY: No, you haven't. You didn't tell us the most significant event of all, how you encountered Ms. Thompson there that night and what happened. We need

4 1

to know from you whether you set her up to rob her and murdered her to keep her from telling on you or whether something else happened. Did you meet her there to discuss this? Did you just happen to see her go by, encounter her and stop her to talk with her again? Did she do something? Did you think she was a 24? Did she threaten - act in some way threatening toward you?

OFF. CHAPEL: I didn't encounter her that night.

LT. LATTY: Did you - you because of your training, your experience, your ability to defend yourself reacted suddenly

OFF. CHAPEL: No.

LT. LATTY:

I done?'

OFF. CHAPEL:

and then said, 'What the hell have

OFF. CHAPEL: No, because I didn't encounter her that night. Lieutenant, I didn't encounter her. Now, what she's telling folks -

LT. LATTY: Why would she tell them that?

OFF. CHAPEL: She's telling folks that I was handling the investigation. I told - I just gave her the routine spiel that I give everybody. That's, you know, the way I do things. I didn't do anything different with her than I do anybody - any other case,

any other stuff I'm working on, but -

LT. LATTY: Do you follow people routinely,

victims?

OFF. CHAPEL: No, I don't follow people routinely unless I have a reason to be, and I didn't rob and I didn't kill her.

LT. LATTY: Mike, I've seen a lot less evidence than what we've got on you convict people.

OFF. CHAPEL: So is there a warrant?

LT. LATTY: There's not a warrant, not at this

time.

OFF. CHAPEL: Lieutenant -

LT. LATTY: The ball's in your court.

OFF. CHAPEL: I've told you everything I know. Everything, Lieutenant. Everything. I did not kill her.

LT. LATTY: What - what - what do you expect that Reddy and Stone in particular and these other people up there are going to tell us? What do you think they have told us?

OFF. CHAPEL: The truth, I hope.

LT. LATTY: Yeah.

OFF. CHAPEL: They can account for me.

LT. LATTY: The truth - the truth is that they don't know where the heck you were.

OFF. CHAPEL: They can account for me.

LT. LATTY: They've already tried and failed, because what they've told us initially ain't right.

We've already disproven the story about the firehouse.

OFF. CHAPEL: What do you mean disproven?

LT. LATTY: That you weren't there during these times. You were on PIB. You weren't there.

OFF. CHAPEL: No. No way. I was not on PIB, and I did not kill no one. No. I'm - besides being accused of killing this woman, what's making me madder the most is as sloppy as that is - if I was going to do that, it

would be better. I wouldn't take her out on the side of the road where - where I could be seen.

LT. LATTY: That would indicate it was unplanned. That's what I'm trying to get at here.

[Investigator Burnette returns to the room.] OFF. CHAPEL: It's a whole lot worse than [unintelligible]

INV. BURNETTE: Yeah, I reckon it is, Mike. [Unintelligible] Mike, tell me about the guns you own now.

OFF. CHAPEL: The guns I own? Oh, let's see. I

got the deer rifles. I've got a - well, I've got the deer rifle, I got a couple of .22s, I got a INV. BURNETTE: Tell me about handguns.

OFF. CHAPEL: Handguns? The only handguns I own are - I got a Glock .45, and I've got a - that's it.

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, you don't carry a second

are

gun?

OFF. CHAPEL: I don't carry a second gun. I haven't carried one in years. I got a .25 automatic. My wife carries it.

INV. BURNETTE: Have you confiscated any guns from anybody up in Buford lately?

OFF. CHAPEL: No. No.

INV. BURNETTE: Did you ask Mike about the tag

number?

LT. LATTY: The victim's tag number? Yeah.

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, do you understand my

problem?

OFF. CHAPEL: I do, Jack.

[Lt. Latty leaves the room.]

INV. BURNETTE: I would've never ever, ever thought that you and I would be having this conversation today.

OFF. CHAPEL: I never would've thought - I don't know what to say, Jack, with this evidence you have here.

INV. BURNETTE: It's bad.

OFF. CHAPEL: It's damning, that's for sure, but it wasn't me. It - it was not me.

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, did John tell you about the guy who identified you?

OFF. CHAPEL: He said someone identified me at a

stoplight or some shit.

INV. BURNETTE: Just up from the murder scene.

OFF. CHAPEL: Just up from the murder scene.

INV. BURNETTE: During the time frame of the

murder.

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

INV. BURNETTE: The guy don't know you from Adam, never has been in any trouble with the police.

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

INV. BURNETTE: Every time we've come up with something like that - even when we came up with him,

Mike, I said, 'Horse manure.

Mike, I said, 'Horse manure. Mike's locked this guy up.'

So we go and pull the arrest history, and he's never been

arrested. So I said, 'Okay. Mike's took a report from

him., So we go pull them, and he's got a couple of

victim calls.

OFF. CHAPEL: And he don't know me, but he makes

me out a liar. Jack -

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, I'm sure you've noticed the last couple of days that I've been kind of quiet and reserved.

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

INV. BURNETTE: I've had loads on my mind. I would give anything, if it had to be this way, if it'd been anybody but you. Mike, we've got - we started

holding them damn road checks down there. Folks start

telling us about a police car.

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

INV. BURNETTE: And then they start

INV. BURNETTE: And then they start - and then they start telling us - and I'm sitting here thinking about it - they start telling us about a police car was there, a police car there before, during and after, and I've been a detective all these years, and I've got quite a quandary here. I've got this evidence on a murder case is pointing to a man who I consider to be one of the best friends I've got in the world. I've got a problem here.

OFF. CHAPEL: I got a bigger problem. I'm accused of murder here, and the truth ain't working.

INV. BURNETTE: Well, Mike, explain to me what the truth is.

OFF. CHAPEL: The truth is I did not kill Ms.

Thompson. I did not do anything out of the ordinary in trying to help the woman than I usually do on everybody else.

INV. BURNETTE: Well, explain the tag number to me, Mike.

OFF. CHAPEL: The tag number. Jack, you can pull the - you can pull the computers. I do that on just about anything. Any call I go to I run the tag. Nearly - nearly always. That is - I run them.

(Unintelligible]. What's a good - what's a Cadillac

sitting in front of a trashy trailer. [Unintelligible]

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, tell me - we talked about

financial stuff a few minutes ago.

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

INV. BURNETTE: I understand Southern Bell had a problem with a check that you paid them, about five hundred dollars, I think it was, the telephone bill at the gym.

OFF. CHAPEL: Oh, at the gym? Nothing out of the ordinary for me up there. If you check way back. I always had problems with them.

INV. BURNETTE: I'm talking about there wasn't enough money in the account to cover the check, according to Southern Bell.

OFF. CHAPEL: I've bounced a couple of them with them. I usually get it real close, and the service charges just knock me out of whack.

INV. BURNETTE: Do you remember having a couple of counseling meetings or a counseling meeting with Captain Davis?

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh. Sure do. Jack, our financial situation is no different than any other couple. There's nothing - nobody's foreclosed, and there's nothing - if I was going to put a hurting on her

for some cash, I certainly would've done a better job than to leave witnesses. That's what hurts the most about this.

INV. BURNETTE: Well, Mike, if it wouldn't've been for the people, and there's no way to account for them, coming up and down PIB, there wouldn't have been any witnesses.

OFF. CHAPEL: Even it was, though, you know, that's still a sloppy job from a cop's point of view. Any witness is one too many.

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, when we first started getting witnesses that had seen the police car here at this time, and one had seen it here at this time, and all within this time frame -

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

INV. BURNETTE: - everything is within the time frame. The first one; they saw somebody doing an area check. But then you get another one. And then you get one that said they saw a police car sitting behind the car with its blue lights. Well, the homicide detective

part of me says, 'Oh, Holy Jesus -1

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh. I know exactly what you're

saying.

INV. BURNETTE: So what do I do?

OFF. CHAPEL: Do your job.

INV. BURNETTE: Come down here and I pull the log sheets, and what do.I find? My friend's working that zone, working that area. But we're still [unintelligible]. We've got another witness here, another witness there. The problem is none of these people know each other because we asked them. They don't have any connection. They don't work together. They don't socialize. They don't live in the same place. What I'm trying to do, Mike, is explain to you what my the problem is as I perceive it. Then on the day of the call of the original - the first thing I find out is, I started hearing about this burglary. So what's the first thing I do? I picked up my mobile phone, and I call in here to have one of the secretaries go find me the burglary report. Well, there ain't no burglary report. I find out there ain't no burglary report. It's not logged on your log sheet.

OFF. CHAPEL: Oh, yeah, I know that.

INV. BURNETTE: Well, what am I supposed to think,

Mike?

OFF. CHAPEL: You're supposed to think what you're thinking, Jack. That's only what a good investigator would think. Only what a good investigator would think.

INV. BURNETTE: And we go up there that morning, walk up there and look at that car.

OFF. CHAPEL: [Unintelligible], and she's dead.

INV. BURNETTE: Now, you know I worked uniform for a long time. I've been back in detectives twice, two different tours. And in traffic, made a bunch of traffic cases.

OFF. CHAPEL: Yeah.

INV. BURNETTE: And while I'm standing here looking at this woman's car, headlights off, the ignition is on, doors are locked, she's seatbelted in, she's pulled to the right, next to the curb. What am I supposed to think? The window is down. She's got a receipt laying in her lap. And the receipt was in the glovebox -

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

INV. BURNETTE: - according to the son. So then I think, well, if it was in the glovebox, what purpose would she have for reaching in the glovebox? Because she was being stopped. And what do people always do?

OFF. CHAPEL: Go in the glovebox.

INV. BURNETTE: For what?

OFF. CHAPEL: Insurance card, registration.

INV. BURNETTE: Registration. I don't like what I'm thinking. I didn't like what I was thinking then. It scared the hell out of me.

OFF. CHAPEL: It should - and it should.

5 1

INV. BURNETTE: So we put it out to the precincts that we're looking for a witness, because I'm still thinking a witness. It had to be a witness. Nobody comes forward. And we got our uniform guys out or our traffic guys out there, and you was out on the first road check.

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

INV. BURNETTE: Our uniform guys are certainly not not foolish. They're very good officers, so it doesn't take long of saying, 'Did you see anything,' and somebody says, 'Well, I saw a police car,' and saying, 'Well, come up here and talk to this detective,' to put two and two together.

OFF. CHAPEL: Yeah, I sent one of them up there.

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, at nine fifty-six you got a call to Arden Drive.

OFF. CHAPEL: Okay.

INV. BURNETTE: I've been out to Arden Drive. I

The officer she described as

talked to that woman. The officer she described as

'white male, tall guy, very courteous, come out and

answered my call.'

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

INV. BURNETTE: Okay. It had something to do with the neighbors. I don't remember.

OFF. CHAPEL: Yeah, the neighbors, kids arguing.

INV. BURNETTE: Okay. Nine fifty-six you get the call. I don't know if John's already talked to you about that or not -

OFF. CHAPEL: No time frame.

INV. BURNETTE: Huh?

OFF. CHAPEL: There was no time frame.

INV. BURNETTE: At nine fifty-six you get the

call.

OFF. CHAPEL: Okay.

INV. BURNETTE: You ask radio to confirm the address or ask them for the address again at 10:07. You do a 10-7 on the call at 10:08. You do a 10-8 on the call at 10:11. Twelve minutes from the time you got the call to the time you went 10-7, and you were out on the call for three minutes, according to what you told radio. That's the reason I'd asked you if you left the residence right after [unintelligible]. And I drove it every way I could think of, driving the speed limit, from the scene to Arden Drive. I drove it from the precinct to Arden Drive. I drove it from the scene down to Lee. I drove

it from the scene down 20.

it from the scene down 20. I drove it from the scene up there to that first road on the right after you pass under the red light at PIB and 20 that goes through town.

OFF. CHAPEL: Yeah, (unintelligible] -

INV. BURNETTE: It all runs within ten to twelve

minutes. The mileage differs, so it depends on the speed you run. Now, I know that the car was already there at the time the call was dispatched as a 10-7. A witness saw the car.

OFF. CHAPEL: At Gwinnco.

INV. BURNETTE: At Gwinnco. When (unintelligible] by her, she says she doesn't see anybody around the car, but that she can see the green lights. This car's got an electronic dash. You know what I'm saying?

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

INV. BURNETTE: And the dash is green. She sees the green, but she doesn't see anybody in the car [unintelligible], so I get to thinking about that. The ignition's on. It's on accessory, but it's still actually on, the same place it would be if the car was on. So what - and the car's got thirteen gallons worth of gas in it, and it should still be on, unless she pulled in there and had to cut - and cut the car of f and then had to cut the car back on accessory because she's got power windows, and the only way the power windows would come down is if it's on accessory, but that's before the call. And we've got the man that we've already talked to, Mike, who says, 'Yes' - eight pictures, not six, wouldn't do six, put eight officers there, and they're officers [unintelligible] - 'this

minutes.

guy, but he don't have a mustache.' Holy Jesus. Mike, I've got to be honest with you -

OFF. CHAPEL: You think I did it.

INV. BURNETTE: What do you think - what OFF. CHAPEL: You don't want to think I did it, but you - but with your investigative power you think that I did it.

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, what do you expect me to

think?

OFF. CHAPEL: I would expect nothing less with the evidence presented. All I know is all that I know. Oh, shit.

INV. BURNETTE: Give me a reasonable - help me with it. Mike, help me with a reasonable explanation.

OFF. CHAPEL: Well, Lt. Latty has tried with the - with the old shit what's happened here. Jack, I

wasn't there. I'm sorry. I can't

I wasn't there.

INV. BURNETTE: What kind of

I can't be there.

INV. BURNETTE: What kind of - Mike, I went and pulled all these records for everybody, anybody who could have been [unintelligible], but it was obvious the guy was working out of the precinct.

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

INV. BURNETTE: It could've been state patrol.

OFF. CHAPEL: Yeah.

INV. BURNETTE: The sheriff's office.

OFF. CHAPEL: Sheriff's deputy. Suwanee.

INV. BURNETTE: Suwanee. Sugar Hill.

OFF. CHAPEL: Sugar Hill marshall, yeah.

INV. BURNETTE: The only problem with the Sugar Hill marshall is he's a southpaw (unintelligible]. That's not consistent with the bullet wound.

OFF. CHAPEL: You wouldn't think that

[unintelligible) would do that. So what; am I going to get booked in now?

INV. BURNETTE: Uh-huh.

OFF. CHAPEL: Damn.

INV. BURNETTE: Give me something that I can verify, something - something that I can verify as to where you were at.

OFF. CHAPEL: They're going to be able to do that up there at the precinct now, I hope. That's where I was at. That's my - that's my only alibi, I guess. I just nothing was out of the ordinary, unroutine, just INV. BURNETTE: Mike, do you remember anybody you talked to civilian-wise? I mean just (unintelligible] 'hey, how are you doing,, any - anything. Mike, I wish

I could prove you didn't do it.

OFF. CHAPEL: I'm - I'm working on it. I'm

trying to think (unintelligible]. I want to say that

that was the night that when I was -

that was the night that when I was - when I went by the gym Van Parker was there. See if he can corroborate me coming by there that night, if he

INV. BURNETTE: Who is Van Parker?

OFF. CHAPEL: He works for me, and I believe he was at the gym -

INV. BURNETTE: Is he white or black?

OFF. CHAPEL: He's white.

INV. BURNETTE: Who is he?

OFF. CHAPEL: He - he's a kid that works for me.

INV. BURNETTE: How old is he?

I think. Good people,

OFF. CHAPEL: He's twenty, I think.

up there in Hoschton.

INV. BURNETTE: Do you have a number

er for him?

I don't even He just - he's touch with him.

OFF. CHAPEL: I don't even have - I don't even have a number to get in touch with him. He just - he's - I don't even have a number to get in touch with him. I believe - I believe he was still at the gym when I went by.

INV. BURNETTE: Well, when did you go by?

OFF. CHAPEL: Well, I left the fire department on my way - because I had just got -

INV. BURNETTE: And you went up to the call [unintelligible] -

OFF. CHAPEL: Yeah. I had just got the call and

went on over to - was alraedy on Lee Street, and I whipped down Moreno, and I believe - oh, hell, what's his name? Wright Blan - Blan Wright - Blan - Blan

wait a minute. It's kind of a weird name either frontwards or backwards. I believe it's W-r-i-g-h-t, and his last name is Blan. I believe he was working out there. That was on the 15th - ah -

INV. BURNETTE: Do you have any of these people's names or work records or anything?

OFF. CHAPEL: I don't have their phone numbers numbers. I've got just membership records, you know.

INV. BURNETTE: What do - what do your membership records consist of?

OFF. CHAPEL: Just their name and if they paid or

not.

INV. BURNETTE: How old is this Blan Wright or Wright Blan?

OFF. CHAPEL: I think he's - I think he's about twenty-one or twenty-three. He works at the Krystal over on - across from the precinct.

INV. BURNETTE: Did you stop in?

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh. I just stopped in to stick my head in to see whols there and make sure their keyholder's there and they can go home. And I do that every - every single night.

INV. BURNETTE: This kid that works for you, Van Parker, does he have to like clock in and out and all that kind of stuff?

OFF. CHAPEL: No. He just

INV. BURNETTE: How do you know when he's there and when he's not there?

OFF. CHAPEL: When I see him, basically. He just works - he comes in around after six and usually stays till closing, and Blan Wright, Arnie - we call him Arnie - he works out - he works out after nine o'clock at night, him and a few other guys, John Posey, and all them.

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, when you left the precinct what was your route?

OFF. CHAPEL: 23 -

INV. BURNETTE: Okay.

OFF. CHAPEL:

OFF. CHAPEL: - to Lee, up Moreno

INV. BURNETTE: Lee to Moreno.

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

INV. BURNETTE: Okay, to the gym.

OFF. CHAPEL: To the - yeah, by t

OFF. CHAPEL: To the - yeah, by the gym, yeah, and then back across to Hill, to 23, to the call.

INV. BURNETTE: At the longest, how long do you think you was at the gym?

OFF. CHAPEL: Oh, a few minutes, five, six.

Mike?

INV. BURNETTE: Can you think of anything else,

OFF. CHAPEL: Believe me, I'm trying. The streets were bare because of the weather. I don't know - I didn't talk to no one. I don't even recall seeing no one.

INV. BURNETTE: Who is Babs?

OFF. CHAPEL: Bab.

INV. BURNETTE: [Unintelligible]

OFF. CHAPEL: Bab. Yonker - Yonkers from what, Wisconsin or somewhere, and he's got that whang in his voice, and we call him Bab bedause he always whines.

INV. BURNETTE: Is that the transmission on OFF. CHAPEL: Say goodnight to Bab? That's yeah - yeah, that's - that's the same guy, Bab.

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, do you remember the last time you owned a .38?

OFF. CHAPEL: Oh, hell, let's see.

INV. BURNETTE: And I say that because I know you like guns -

OFF. CHAPEL: Yeah.

INV. BURNETTE: - [unintelligible].

OFF. CHAPEL: I can't, Jack. I can't rememb4r.

When I - when I feel the need to carry one I carry a

yeah

backup I carry that little pissy .25. I just

I just

don't carry one. I usually carry a knife.

INV. BURNETTE: What kind of knife do you carry?

OFF. CHAPEL: I carry a diver's knife in my boot.

INV. BURNETTE: You don't have it in there now, do

you?

OFF. CHAPEL: No. No. It's in the car, you know.

You can have it if you want it.

INV. BURNETTE: Is it doubled-edged or singled-

edged?

OFF. CHAPEL: It's a - I think it's a double edge. It's a, you know, diver's knife, serrated, little minor serrations on both sides.

INV. BURNETTE: Uh-huh.

OFF. CHAPEL: So I was picked out of a lineup,

huh?

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, that's a fact. I wouldn't sit here and tell you it was if it wasn't.

OFF. CHAPEL: I can understand that, and I know you wouldn't. It's - again, you know, aside from being accused of murder here and robbery, the circumstances

surrounding

surrounding that is basically an insult.

INV. BURNETTE: [Unintelligible]

OFF. CHAPEL: If I was going to do some - i I was going to do somebody, I think that one witness would be too many to have around, plus on the side of the road.

6 1

INV. BURNETTE: Was yesterday Erin's birthday?

OFF. CHAPEL: Yeah. Sure was.

INV. BURNETTE: What did y'all do?

OFF. CHAPEL: Went down here to a little old Cajun

restaurant down here on - which one - on Spalding

Drive. Had some pretty good food.

INV. BURNETTE: What did you get her fot her birthday?

OFF. CHAPEL: Basically, a night out. That's all we could afford. [Unintelligible] on that.

INV. BURNETTE: Tell me what you're thinking,

Mike.

OFF. CHAPEL: I'm trying, Jack. My God, you

wouldn't believe, but I - I can't - I can't even make

up nothing.

INV. BURNETTE: Give me an out.

OFF. CHAPEL: I'm trying. The only thing I can say is if the boys at the fire department and Rooster and Reddy and the guys at the gymls the only ones that - I mean I don't know what - didn't know - I didn't know I was going to need an alibi. Never thought I'd end up this way with something like this.

INV. BURNETTE: As much time as you and I have spent in Washington, Georgia, Ild've never dreamed it.

OFF. CHAPEL: That's what hurts the most, Jack.

INV. BURNETTE: And if anybody had told me that, I'd have told them they was crazy.

OFF. CHAPEL: That's what hurts the most for you to make a judgment on that that I'm guilty and now I got to prove myself innocent.

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, I've answered you about it, and I've told you why [unintelligible] -

OFF. CHAPEL: I know, Jack, but the truth's not working, so I don't know what to - I can't lie. I don't know what the truth is - I mean what to say. Oh, great.

INV. BURNETTE: Did you think of somet\hing?

OFF. CHAPEL: No, I was just imagining being locked up over there where I put all them dirtbags.

INV. BURNETTE: Tell me about the time you talked to Michael.

OFF. CHAPEL: The day I was down there that Bob Chew was saying I was going to arrest somebody by the weekend -

INV. BURNETTE: Yeah.

OFF. CHAPEL: that I was going to

INV. BURNETTE: I think that was [unintelligible] OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

INV. BURNETTE: The question that hits my mind, Mike, when I heard about that, when I heard - you Ire a good cop, you'll understand that -

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh. Oh, I know. That's why I'm not sitting here screaming because I understand everything you're saying.

INV. BURNETTE: The question that hits my mind is if Mike told her that this is a ruse, why would she even tell her friends about it?

OFF. CHAPEL: I really don't know. Only she could answer that, and I don't know.

INV. BURNETTE: But she ain't here.

OFF. CHAPEL: That's the - that's the problem.

INV. BURNETTE: A major problem.

OFF. CHAPEL: Big time. Well, [unintelligible] get more money from the Chapels.

[Lt. Latty returns to the room.]

LT. LATTY: Mike, we've done the interviews, and they say you weren't there.

OFF. CHAPEL: Lieutenant, I wasn't there.

LT. LATTY: They say you weren't at the precinct with them.

OFF. CHAPEL: I was at the precinct.

LT. LATTY: They don't know where you were. They never saw you after eight-thirty when you left the church.

OFF. CHAPEL: Who didn't see me at eight-thirty

after I left the church?

LT. LATTY: Brian Reddy. I just read the statement.

OFF. CHAPEL: We were - we were - wait a minute. We sat in the fire - did you check with the whole C shift at the fire department?

LT. IATTY: We checked with Reddy. Wouldn't Reddy

know?

wait a minute.

OFF. CHAPEL: Reddy was there.

LT. LATTY: We're checking with Stone.

OFF. CHAPEL: Well, all right, then.

LT. LATTY: Reddy says - Reddy says that that

night he talked to you about the storm -

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

talked to ou about listening to

LT. LATTY: - talked to ou about listening t the weather reports about the storm.

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. LATTY: He says that y'all met up there on Main Street at the church, just like you said -

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

till around eight-thirty. At

LT. LATTY: - till around eight-thirty. At eight-thirty he left there. Y'all broke up. He went to the fire station. He stayed there, talked to the firemen, watched the weather report. About ten minutes later Sergeant Stone came in. He never saw you the rest of the night till the end of the shift.

OFF. CHAPEL: Okay. All right. Here's you something to corroborate with him. Ask him how come he can't tell which color - what color Gwinnett County is in the warning sym- - in the warning symbol there. That conversation took place inside that fire department when they were doing the warning, boop, boop, boop, boop, these areas are now inside the -

LT. LATTY: Mike, he said you weren't there.

OFF. CHAPEL: I was there.

LT. LATTY: Is he lying?

OFF. CHAPEL: He's mistaken.

LT. LATTY: He says you weren't there.

OFF. CHAPEL: He's mistal--n. I know all about

that because I was picking on him about that, about what color the - the -

LT. LATTY: Now

OFF. CHAPEL: - the county was.

you say, 'Here's where I was.

LT. LATTY: - you say, 'Here's where I was.'

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. LATTY: The witness says, 'This guy without a

I saw him standing by the

mustache passed me down there. I saw him standing by th side of the car.,

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. LATTY: Now, Officer Reddy, whols obviously a friend of yours -

OFF. CHAPEL: A good friend.

LT. LATTY: - a colleague of yours, who would

probably - who would probably not only risk his lif e but if need be give his life for you out there, says, 'I never saw Mike after eight-thirty that night. He was not at the firehouse.1 Now, you know I didn't come in here and make that up. I just read the statement. It was sent down to me a little while ago from up there where they're talking to those people.

OFF. CHAPEL: I was sitting right there with him at the fire station. I was sitting right there with him because I was picking on him about he couldn't tell which one - what Gwinnett County was.

LT. LATTY: What time was this?

OFF. CHAPEL: It was after nine. After nine o'clock.

LT. LATTY: Mike, you're making it harder and

probably

harder.

OFF. CHAPEL: Lieutenant -

LT. LATTY: It's looking worse and worse.

OFF. CHAPEL: Granted. He says I was not at the fire station.

LT. LATTY: That's what he says, Brian Reddy.

OFF. CHAPEL: Well - what about the - what shif t

would that be on the 15th, the fire department?

LT. LATTY: Are you talking about the fire shift?

OFF. CHAPEL: The fire shift.

LT. LATTY: I don't know - I don't know which one. I think it's the same one that comes back in tomorrow, if I'm not mistaken.

OFF. CHAPEL: All right. We can check - you can check with them, then.

LT. LATTY: We will.

OFF. CHAPEL: Because I

LT. LATTY: You know we will.

OFF. CHAPEL: I hope so. I really do. Please do. They'll tell you I sat right there. I can tell you the exact chair I sat in.

LT. LATTY: Mike, do you think that Brian Reddy,

your friend, an experienced police officer, a good police

officer like yourself, a good police officer

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. LATTY: when he knows what this is about, when he knows the predicament you're in, is not going to say you were there if you were there?

OFF. CHAPEL: I don't know why he's not saying I was there, but there was at least nine people there that will say I was there.

LT. LATTY: Well, now, you told us everybody's going to say you was there, and we - the first report

you can

that we have in is from Reddy, one of the key people and your friend -

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. LATTY: - and he says that he never saw you after eight-thirty until you came in that night at the end of the shift.

OFF. CHAPEL: That is not right. That's mistaken, because I know where I was, and I was there, because when I got up to leave he asked me where I was going. Reddy

did.

LT. LATTY: Reddy asked you where you were going?

OFF. CHAPEL: Reddy asked me where I was going, and I told him to check the gym.

LT. LATTY: On Thursday night, the 15th?

OFF. CHAPEL: Tax day, yeah. That's correct. On the 15th.

INV. BURNETTE: I'm going to go get a Coke. Do you want one?

OFF. CHAPEL: Yeah.

INV. BURNETTE: I'll be right back.

OFF. CHAPEL: The only thing I can think,

Lieutenant, is that -

LT. LATTY: What kind of Coke do you want?

OFF. CHAPEL: Diet Coke, Jack. That'll be fine.

INV. BURNETTE: Do you want something, John?

LT. LATTY: Yeah, I'll take one, please, sir.

OFF. CHAPEL: I know - I think I know where he's getting on that. We - we go to the fire department quite a bit. I mean nearly every night. That's what was was - thank God we had tornado warnings and everything to justify the whole shift coming together and hiding out in the fire department.

LT. LATTY: Like you've never done that before.

OFF. CHAPEL: Well, you know what I'm saying.

LT. LATTY: Hey, we all do it.

OFF. CHAPEL: But as soon as you check with the shift they'll tell you that I was there, because I actually - me and Reddy, we entertain them when we go in there, and I was picking on him about the colors of the warning symbols on the - they were flashing at the bottom, the tornado was moving through -

LT. LATTY: And he wouldn't remember that?

OFF. CHAPEL: He's got his nights mixed up. He

may.

LT. LATTY: How many big storms came through that week where y'all congregated at the fire station to watch the weather reports? I mean -

OFF. CHAPEL: Well -

LT. LATTY: - it's tax day. It's a big storm.

Everybody remembers that big storm.

OFF. CHAPEL: That's right.

LT. LATTY: Everybody.

OFF. CHAPEL: I don't -

LT. LATTY: How could Brian forget it? Brian's no dummy. Brian's a very astute, bright man, and very experienced in police work. He knows the importance of things. He knows the importance - he knows the

importance -

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. LATTY: - of stating to us whether or not you were there at that critical time on that critical day.

OFF. CHAPEL: Exactly.

LT. LATTY: And he says OFF. CHAPEL: I wasn't.

says

LT. LATTY:

you weren't there. This witness

OFF. CHAPEL: I was -

LT. LATTY:

who don't know you from Adam,

OFF. CHAPEL: I was over there.

'That officer was looking in the

LT. LATTY: - 'That officer was looking in the car.' Let me ask you something, Mike. I've been trying to think of possible explanations, possible scenarios here -

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

7 1

LT. LATTY: - because, like Jack and everybody else in this department, we hate to believe what the evidence shows, but we're rational people OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

you

and we do this for a living, so we

LT. LATTY: - and we do this for a '[Vjng, so we know how these things work. Could you - could you, for some inexplicable reason, it would make more sense than that you did this, did you find that car that night?

OFF. CHAPEL: No.

LT. LATTY: Did you check that car that night and find her there and think, my gosh - did something go wrong, did something - were you for some reason afraid because you had had contact with her, because you'd not made these reports? Help me here. Is there some

other -

OFF. CHAPEL: No, the

LT. LATTY: Give me an explanation. Help me understand. What in the world happened?

OFF. CHAPEL: There i-s no

LT. LATTY: Mike, I'm telling you

OFF. CHAPEL: I've seen the evidence there.

you know where

LT. LATTY: - I'm telling you - you know whe you know where you are.

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. LATTY: I don't have to tell you where you

7 2

are. You know where are. You understand the nature of evidence. You understand the nature of eyewitness testimony.

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. LATTY: You understand the value. You've done it. You've shown photo lineups. You've constructed them. You know what it means when somebody says, 'That's the person,' who is, as far as we know, a law-abiding, hardworking businessperson whols intelligent and whols bright and whols observant, and something out of the ordinary catches his attention. And he not only says, 'That's the guy,' but he says, 'That's the guy, but he don I t have the mustache. You can I t - Mike, that I s not wrong. He's not wrong. He's not mistaken. It was you. It was you that he saw there on the side of the road that night. And your explanation to us has been, 'He's mistaken, other people saw - I was here, people saw me there, my friends, my colleagues and friends, saw me there.' And they say -

OFF. CHAPEL: I wasn't.

LT. LATTY: 'He wasn't there.' There's only one conclusion. You yourself

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. LATTY: know what the conclusion is.

What's going to happen to you now?

OFF. CHAPEL: They're going to charge me with murder and armed robbery, and I'm going to sit over there on the big hill with the rest of the dirtbags I've spent a lifetime putting in there.

LT. LATTY: What about -

OFF. CHAPEL: Till we go to court and I can get this cleared up, and my life will be ruined forever.

LT. LATTY: What about your

daddy and your brother -

OFF. CHAPEL: Exactly.

and your family

LT. LATTY: - and your

OFF. CHAPEL: I know it.

what about your

your wife and your children.

LT. LATTY: your wife and your children.

OFF. CHAPEL: Exactly. I don't believe this is happening. And Reddy says I wasn't there.

LT. LATTY: Correct.

OFF. CHAPEL: Wonder who that was picking on him?

LT. LATTY: Well, if it was you it was at some other time. It wasn't between nine forty-five and ten o'clock p.m. on the 15th, because, Mike, you were down on the side of the road on PIB at Gwinnco Muffler.

OFF. CHAPEL: Killing this woman.

LT. LATTY: I can't think of any other explanation since you were down there. You never came forward and told us you were down there.

OFF. CHAPEL: I wasn't.

LT. LATTY: You never - you never - you never offered an explanation as to why you were there.

OFF. CHAPEL: Well, I didn't realize I needed an alibi until tonight. I never thought - even thought I

had to reconstruct one.

LT. LATTY: Did you think that people would not notice a police car on the side of the road when asked about such a critical thing? You don't think that they would remember seeing a police car?

OFF. CHAPEL: Of course they would.

LT. LATTY: I mean, you know, police cars police cars are decorated and marked and they reflect

OFF. CHAPEL: High visibility.

LT. LATTY: because we want people to see them.

OFF. CHAPEL: That's right. Exactly.

LT. LATTY: And people do see them. And people saw them that night. They saw that car there that night, a multitude of people did.

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. LATTY: Coming through there, going home from work, going home from church, riding up and down the road, going home from the hospital where they'd visited a good friend who was in the hospital. And these people, some of them, we had to learn the same way you learn

things, through informants. They were afraid to come tell us what they saw. They said, 'My God, what we're fixing to tell you,, but they didn't realize we was already hearing it, 'what we're fixing to tell you is going shock you, it's going to upset you, I hope you won't be upset with me. Here's what I saw. It was a policeman. It was a county policeman that I saw there.' A county policeman.

[Inv. Burnette returns to the room.]

INV. BURNETTE: Do you want the regular or diet?

LT. LATTY: It doesn't matter. You can give me what you want me to have.

INV. BURNETTE: You can have that one.

LT. LATTY: Thank you.

OFF. CHAPEL: Thank you, Jack.

LT. LATTY: Well, Mike, I can't believe, I don't want to believe, I can't believe, I can't believe that you would plot something like this, that you would do something like this premeditatedly, and, as you say, do it in such a manner that seems like half the world saw you there.

OFF. CHAPEL: Exactly. That's - I was telling Jack that's what hurts the most.

LT. LATTY: So did something else happen?

OFF. CHAPEL: Nothing happened.

LT. LATTY: Was it a chance encounter? Did you meet with her there? Did she - did she accuse you of something? Did she threaten you in some way? Did she do something to you or threaten to do something to you? Did she - did she act in a threatening manner toward you? I mean, good grief, you know as well as I do that a woman can pull a trigger just as much as man your size or Jack's size can. Did you think that she was going to do something to you? Did you react out of fear? What went wrong? It doesn't - I agree with you it doesn't make sense that you plotted this and plotted it in such a way that, bang, here you are a week later. But I've been I've been doing police work here in Gwinnett County for over fifteen years. I spent well over ten years of that in the detective division. I like to think of myself as reasonably intelligent. I'm not a Jack Burnette. I wished I were. I wished I were as good as he is, and I keep trying, but I - I understand evidence. I

understand the value of eyewitness testimony. I understand that when you show a photographic lineup and in your case there were eight photographs there, more than we normally put in there, of police officers, unif orm on, because that I s what they saw - that you know

when you show them this photo lineup

when you show them this photo lineup - and you've done

it. I've seen - I've seen victims of terrible crimes,

7 7

you know, become emotional, break down, you know, can't look at the picture, point at it and look away. I've seen them think about it a long time and say, 'Well, I just don't know, but, you know, if I had to pick somebody, this one is the most likely., You know, that ain't worth a lot. But, Mike, when a man looks at the photo lineup, and he says, 'That guy right there, but he didn't have a mustache,' that is a tremendous eyewitness identification, visual identification. That is tremendous. That's the kind of thing that in a case you hope for. Believe you me, we were hoping to hear something else from him when we showed him your picture with those other people there, but when he says, 'It's him without the mustache,' they don't - it don't come any better than that. It doesn't come any better than that. And he says, the same guy, 'The officer was standing down there wearing his yellow raincoat, with his flashlight, big man, stooped over, looking in the car with his flashlight, his patrol car behind him, blue lights going -

INV. BURNETTE: Bubble car.

LT. LATTY: He called it a bubble car. They go on up the road thinking nothing about it but there's an officer out there doing his job, (unintelligible] out there making a traffic stop in rainy, nasty, stormy

7 8

weather, and they go on up the road. But as they proceed up the road, the patrol car comes out, whips up to where they are at the light at First Avenue, stops, they looked over. Same officer they saw down on the side of the road. They see him clearly enough to recognize him, a photograph of him, but say he didn't have the mustache.

INV. BURNETTE: And don't know you.

LT. LATTY: Don't know you from Adam. Mike, there's not but one conclusion, not but one conclusion any rational person who understands the nature of evidence is going to - going to draw. What happened there? What brought you to that point? How does a man of your caliber, of your intelligence, of your ability, of your experience, a man whols dedicated his life to serving the public, in the Marine Corps, in police work, dedicated his life, gone the extra mile to serve on the SWAT team, hours never matter, the jobs needs to be done, do the job. And like so many of us have done through the years, sacrificed time with a family you love to do this job. Throw your whole life into it.

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. LATTY: And then

Tape 2 State's Exhibit 7

LT. LATTY: in passing - but you know Jack

Burnette. Jack Burnette would never manufacture

7 9

anything -

OFF. CHAPEL: Oh, I'm not -

if it was his own family.

LT. LATTY: - if it was his own family.

OFF. CHAPEL: I'm not saying it's manufactured, and I wouldn't - I wouldn't say that - no, not - first of all, I wouldn't plan something like this knowing it had to go up, you know, to try to outsmart you two, you know, but I don't know what to - I can't - I can't

account for it.

LT. LATTY: You don't - you don't do something like this with the thought in mind of whols going to work the case or -

OFF. CHAPEL: Exactly.

LT. IATTY: that. You do it for other reasons. The worst reason I can think of is that times are hard, you're struggling. Not only do you do police work and long - work long hours, but you got the guts to go into business. I've always admired people that had the guts to go into business. I ain't got it. That's why all of my life I've worked for somebody else who paid me a salary and paid my health benefits because I ain't got the guts and the nerve to go out there on that limb and get into business because it takes guts. It takes people who have smarts. It takes people who have courage. It takes people who are dedicated and motivated to do that.

And you've done that. But in doing these things and going out on that limb and struggling in a business, and you know the statistics on business, you know. Most almost all businesses, small business, family businesses, one-owner business, they go under in the first couple of years.

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. LATTY: Or less. You've managed to keep this business going. You've struggled, but you've kept it going. You've had tough times. You've got a hearing problem. You have all these other physical abilities and all this other - all these other physical gifts, and your hearing's gone bad on you. But that's not deterred you. You're going to get you some hearing aids, and you're going to proceed right on like it never happened. It's not - you're not somebody that's going to let that slow you down. You're going to proceed on. You got to have money for those things. People get in tight spots. People sometimes find themselves in situations they think they can't get out of. People find themselves thinking they're going to lose the people that they love most in the world, their wife or their children, and they will do whatever they think they have to do to keep those people, to take care of the things that they believe because of their pride and integrity that they need to take care of,

8 1

and sometimes we do things that we shouldn't do. We make mistakes. We make terrible miscalculations and judgments when we find ourselves in this position. It can happen. It happens to people. It happenb to people all the time. It happens to good people, to dedicated people, to talented people, to very bright people. It's usually those people who are - who have the greatest motivation to accomplish things in life that - that have this drive and have this motivation that find themselves in that position.

If it hadn't been for this woman and her dirtbag faggot son, these things might not have happened. Stealing from his mama because he's too sorry to go out and get him a job, and he's too sorry to work hard and get up early and stay up late, risk his financial status to make a living. He goes and takes it from people and he takes it from the most vulnerable people, his own mama.

Mike, I want to know - I want to know from you what happened, and Jack wants to know. Jack's your friend. Jack loves you. Jack's going to have an awful hard time, not as hard as you are, but he's going to have an awful hard time coming to grips with this, with having to confront a friend of his, a man he's hunted with, a man he's slept in the woods with, swapped stories with,

shared secrets with about his life, that he has to sit and talk to him like this tonight. I don't like it either. It's very difficult. Believe you me, it is. It's - it's not pleasurable. It's a very difficult thing. But it's not nearly as tough for me as it is for him because he loves you. I love you as a fellow officer. I appreciate and respect you as an officer who has worked hard all these years, and it hurts, but it's got to be done.

Mike, you've got to live with this. You've got to live with this. And you've got to come to grips yourself with what happened there and how it came to be. We all have to do that. When we make mistakes, whether they're large ones or small ones, we have to confront those mistakes. Robody can do it for us. We have to ask those hard questions, 'how did I get here, why did this happen, how could this happen to me.' Nobody can answer that but you. You've got to answer that question. Everybody is going to ask you that question. The people who love you the most are going to ask you what happened, how did this come to be, how did you wind up in this situation. And you've got to decide yourself what you're going to tell them. They're going to listen to you, and you've got to decide how you're going to deal with it, how you're going to handle it. And from your standpoint, in the long

haul, in the long term, it's going to be far more important to you than it is anybody else. As important as it is to us, as important as it is to your family, the people who love you, your daddy that raised you, your brother you've fought with and scuffled with and played ball with and done all those things with, your wife that you love, the children that you've borne together, it's going to be awful hard on them, but ultimately it's going to be the hardest of all on you, and that has begun tonight. It's up to you to decide what you're going to do. We can't do it for you. If there's any way in the world, if there's any way in the world that we could take you out of this thing, there's nothing that would make us happier. We've talked about this. We've sat in the dark on the side of the road and said, 'There's got to be some other explanation. There's got to be another way. There's got to be another answer. Not Mike Chapel. Not Mike Chapel.' But there's no other answer, and so we're beyond that point of knowing that it's Mike Chapel. We're beyond that point. We know that now. We're at the point now, Mike, of deciding, you deciding, why, how, what are you going to do, what are you going to do about it. How are you going to try to fix your life? Are you just going to give up now? Are we just going to give up and say, 'I'll fight it. Whatever comes MY way, I'll

take it,, you know. What - 'If I lose this person, if I lose that person, fine,, or are you going to say, 'There's - there's yet hope. There's yet hope. I got to confront what happened. I got to face what happened. I got to tell people what happened., Jack and I'll listen to what happened. We don't want to hear it, but it'll do you an awful lot of good if you'd tell us. It's a starting point if you'll tell us what happened there. We I 11 - we I 11 do whatever in the world we can. It I s out - it's beyond our control to change history. It's beyond our control to take these things away, but I tell you what we can do. We can help you confront what has happened to you. You can start by being honest with yourself and being honest with us. And whatever happens, it will never be the same, but we'll always remember and love the Mike Chapel that got out there and done police work till he was blue in the face.

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh. That's what really gets

you.

LT. LATTY: Mike, it's what made that's put you here OFF. CHAPEL: Right.

the choices you

not the police work you did.

LT. LATTY: - not the police work you did.

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. LATTY: Not somebody else. What happened in

your own heart and mind is what put you here. We don't know that. Only you know that. But we want to know that. We want to know how you, of all people, could've wound up there that night in that situation. Was there something happening to you? Was there something that was beyond your control where - was something coming down around your head that you just couldn't - you couldn't deal with, you were trying to take whatever route you knew to get out of it and somehow everything just went awry? People don't - people don't set out to wind up in this situation. People don't plan to wind up sitting where you're sitting now. They never plan that. it happens because of a series of events. Because of a series of decisions that we make, we wind up in those those situations. You're not the first; you'll not be the last. But by the grace of God any of us could be where you are. But we're not tonight, Mike. You're there. You're sitting in that seat. You're groping for answers, and there are no answers because we know what happened. We want to hear it from you. We want to know what happened. We want some kind of explanation. We want - we want to be able to satisfy ourselves, and we

we want the other policemen - it's going to

want - we want the other policemen - it's going to affect every single police officer in this agency. It's going to affect every police officer in Gwinnett County,

in the metro area, everywhere. Every time something happens, it affects all of us. We need to know how and why. We need to be able to tell people how this came to be. We need to know ourselves how this came to be. How did big Mike Chapel, how did animal Chapel wind up there? How did it happen?

OFF. CHAPEL: Because a few people said they saw me there, that's why. They saw somebody that looks like me there or they saw a police car there.

LT. LATTY: Who was that, Mike?

OFF. CHAPEL: These people you talked to.

LT. LATTY: Do you - do you agree that there was

a police car that night?

OFF. CHAPEL: From what you've - the evidence you've showed me, there had to be a police car there.

LT. LATTY: If you were investigating this case and you had the evidence that we have, would you go draw the conclusion that there was a police car there that night?

OFF. CHAPEL: Absolutely.

LT. LATTY: Would you draw the conclusion that it was a Gwinnett County police car that was there that night?

OFF. CHAPEL: From what you're saying.

LT. LATTY: Yes, sir. Would you agree that it was

a white male officer who was inside that police car that

night?

OFF. CHAPEL: I -

LT. LATTY: Yes, sir.

OFF. CHAPEL: From what you've said, I see the evidence -

LT. LATTY: Wearing his yellow raincoat because it's a stormy night, with brown hair. Mike, it's not because a few witnesses say you're there. It's because you were there and they saw you there. It is not because somebody says you were there. It's because you were there. That's the last and the final conclusion that any rational person can draw. That's what happened. You were there. Why were you there?

OFF. CHAPEL: I was not there.

LT. IATTY: You weren't at the firehouse either.

OFF. CHAPEL: Yes, I was. You'll - that will come to a head. I was in the firehouse.

LT. LATTY: You were in the firehouse all night. Mike, we're beyond that. We're beyond that.

OFF. CHAPEL: Okay.

LT. LATTY: We're beyond that. Everybody else that we interview after Brian Reddy is going to say the same thing because, Mike, no matter how much they think of you, no matter how much they're bonded to you in the

work that you're doing up there and the risks that you're taking, they are not going to say you were there, because you weren't there.

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, is - are you and Reddy as good friends as you and I are?

OFF. CHAPEL: Probably.

INV. BURNETTE: Do you not think that if I would've been in that firehouse and you'd have been there and John Latty had come ask me -

are you and Reddy as

OFF. CHAPEL: Jack, I don't - I don't understand

why he doesn't think I was there. I - I - I don't know

how to answer that question because I was there. It was the night of the storm. He says I wasn't there at all. I was there. I left there - because he asked me where was going. That's how I know - you know, we spoke, we had conversation, we talked, we laughed, because I was picking on him about the - the warning things there. Shit.

LT. IATTY: I'm going to check about something.

[Lt. Latty leaves the room.]

OFF. CHAPEL: I don't know why Reddy's doing that.

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, you know if I were in uniform and you and I were in that firehouse, and if Reddy is supposed to be as good a friend as I am to you, you can bet I'd be there saying, 'Mike Chapel was in the

firehouse with me, dude.,

OFF. CHAPEL: Jack, I don't know why he's saying

I was there. The firemen will tell

that. I - I don't. I was there. The firemen will tell you that. Stone will tell you that.

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, we're to the point that that man says, 'This fellow here except without a mustache., Now, how in the world would he have known that you didn't have a mustache? How in the world would he have known that? That's all there is to it. No way in the world he

could've known that. And that's a very significant

point. Brian has no reason -

OFF. CHAPEL: Brian is just mistaken. I cannot

believe - I don't - I don't under - I can't explain

believe - I don't - I don't under - I can't explain it. He just had his nights mixed up, but on the 15th I sat phone, chair, chair, chair, here, and we sat there and cut up, because I picked on his stupid ass because he couldn't tell what color, what shape Gwinnett County was in, the outline of Gwinnett, so he - I told him to get up and go put his finger on - on the map.

go put his finger on - on the map.

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, I guess the big question in

I don't understand it. I'd like

my mind is why, and - I don't understand it. I'd like to tell you I did.

OFF. CHAPEL: We have - the family life is fine.

OFF. CHAPEL: We have - the family life is fine

There's no financial burden. The business is fine.

INV. BURNETTE: Well, how could you be doing too

good if you're bouncing five hundred dollar checks to Southern Bell?

OFF. CHAPEL: It's - you need to go back further in your records to see it's not really an uncommon practice in my case. More than happy to produce the records. It wasn't a five hundred dollar check anyway, was it?

INV. BURNETTE: Yeah, I think that's what they said, Mike. I've been trying to take in so much the last week. The -

OFF. CHAPEL: I think it was a two hundred dollar

check.

INV. BURNETTE: It may have been. I really don't know. Did the thing with Captain Davis [unintelligible] before, the financial problem thing, did that work?

OFF. CHAPEL: God, Jack, that was two years ago. It was - it was just hard times.

INV. BURNETTE: Did you - that new truck, did you lose that?

OFF. CHAPEL: I gave it back. It was either that or the business.

INV. BURNETTE: Is Erin working nowadays?

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh. She works two jobs. I work three jobs.

INV. BURNETTE: Where do you work at [unintell-

It was

9 1

igible ] ?

OFF. CHAPEL: I work - well, I work at - I work at Longhorn's. I bounce down there. I work the door down there. Or did. Or did do that. It's a sad thing. Guilty or innocent, there's no going back now. You know it's over, people think I'm guilty [unintelligible].

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, you don't think I've thought long and hard about that?

OFF. CHAPEL: Well

INV. BURNETTE: You think this is something I want

to do?

OFF. CHAPEL: No, I know. I'm not - Jack, no. I know. Yeah, I know you're just doing your job and reacting to the evidence presented. I'd expect nothing less. I was hoping - we've already - we've already talked about this when we heard that there was - a police car's involved, and said, well, you systematically eliminate it one by one.

INV. BURNETTE: That's right.

OFF. CHAPEL: And you got somebody that says they

saw me.

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, I can't account for you.

And don't think I haven't tried.

OFF. CHAPEL: I know you have, Jack. I honestly

- I know - I know.

INV. BURNETTE: I've spent a week trying to account for you.

OFF. CHAPEL: Who'd have thought it.

INV. BURNETTE: Certainly not I.

OFF. CHAPEL: Is this pretty much it? Case closed? I'm the sus- - I'm the guilty party?

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, I don't know if we [unintelligible].

OFF. CHAPEL: Fair enough, then.

INV. BURNETTE: I'm afraid if the same evidence continues, it's not going to do anything but get worse.

OFF. CHAPEL: Well, it looks like I'm going to have to live what they say. I may beat the rap, but I ain't beating the ride, because I don't have anything I can't think of anything else. I can't think of anything else. As I say, I wasn't operating where I'd need an alibi.

INV. BURNETTE: Why would you need an alibi? I just need -

OFF. CHAPEL: Answers.

INV. BURNETTE: I hope you to understand how important that log sheet is.

OFF. CHAPEL: Oh, God, Jack, [unintelligible]. It was nothing - nothing but inattention to detail. That Is

all it was. Rooster's bitched at me a hundred times

before.

INV. BURNETTE: You understand how it looks not to

even have that -

OFF. CHAPEL: I -

INV. BURNETTE: - call listed on that log sheet.

OFF. CHAPEL: I understand.

INV. BURNETTE: No report.

OFF. CHAPEL: I understand [unintelligible]. If

anything, if I was going to do something like this, that would've been a good cover-your-ass.

INV. BURNETTE: The problem with that, Mike, is there's so many checks and balances that it wouldn't have covered your ass like that anyway.

OFF. CHAPEL: That's true. Pretty sloppy premeditation, though.

INV. BURNETTE: I just wish, as long as we've known each other, that I knew why. Mike, I got to tell you, though, I'm convinced - God, as hard as that is to say - but I don't have a [unintelligible].

OFF. CHAPEL: Well, I appreciate you not doing a Joe Jackson on me and sending out the troops.

INV. BURNETTE: There was no reason to. Mike, it's a difficult decision. The best thing that you would ever tell me, [unintelligible]. If you put yourself in my position, what would you think if the roles were

that

reversed?

OFF. CHAPEL: Exactly what you're thinking.

INV. BURNETTE: And I would hope that you'd be feeling exactly like I'm feeling as your friend.

OFF. CHAPEL: I understand you're hurt, Jack, and I understand you're doing what you're doing on the evidence presented.

INV. BURNETTE: Mike

OFF. CHAPEL: What I don't understand is why so long to take the statements from people, from Stone and from Stone and Reddy.

INV. BURNETTE: I'll tell you why, because when this started coming to light

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

INV. BURNETTE: - from the very first thing, was that if this man is innocent, I will not be a party to damaging his reputation in any way. Now, when it gets to the point we're going to have to have more evidence [unintelligible] before it got to the point of talking to Rooster, because when it got to that point it's a done deal.

OFF. CHAPEL: I understand.

INV. BURNETTE: You understand what I'm saying? will not - exact words - will not be a party to damaging this man's reputation without a whole bunch of

evidence to corroborate that. That's why it's taken so long to talk to Rooster. That's why it's taken so long to talk to Reddy.

OFF. CHAPEL: I can't believe Reddy's statement [unintelligible]. Please check with the firemen

tomorrow, Jack.

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, you can take that to the

bank.

you.

the closest thing

OFF. CHAPEL: That's the only - the closest thi to an alibi I got.

INV. BURNETTE: I wouldn't do anything in the world, and I think you know that, to intentionally hurt

OFF. CHAPEL: I know you wouldn't, Jack. I know you wouldn't.

INV. BURNETTE: I would not. I would go out of my way to keep from hurting you, and I have. The problem is that that's not what the facts show, and at a point in time you have to draw the proverbial line in the sand.

OFF. CHAPEL: And it's here now.

INV. BURNETTE: You know, I'm not for doing the

Joe Jackson thing.

OFF. CHAPEL: I understand.

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, there's no doubt in my mind

that in a physical confrontation you'd make short work of

me, but I think you have more respect for me than that.

OFF. CHAPEL: i have more respect for a lot of

things than that, and it just - that's what hurts the

most. I - I can't -

INV. BURNETTE: For the life of me - for the life

of me I can't understand why.

that's what hurts the

of me I can't understand why. I do not understand why. I've laid awake thinking about it. I've taken walks through our favorite places in the middle of the woods

thinking about it.

OFF. CHAPEL: I sensed it, Jack.

INV. BURNETTE: I'm sure you did, and I knew you sensed it.

OFF. CHAPEL: I sensed it. I sensed it, because told Reddy last night that we, the police, were suspect.

That's while we were standing at the back door

s w i e we were stand3 ng at the back door - was it last - night before last. Me and Reddy were sitting there talking about that. We were talking about being suspects, but it never occurred that I was the suspect.

INV. BURNETTE: At some point in time I'm going to have to face your dad and talk to him about this. I always thought a lot of him.

OFF. CHAPEL: Me too. I think it's going to put Mama in the grave.

INV. BURNETTE: I certainly hope not, and I certainly wouldn't do anything to put her there.

OFF. CHAPEL: Fresh accusations about [unintelligible], and a federal trial on Greg and a murder trial on me.

INV. BURNETTE: I wish this was a nightmare, and I could wake up in the morning [unintelligible], and we're here. Mike, you're the only one who can [unintelligible]. All I can do is sit here and listen. If there was some kind of confrontation at the car, hypothetically, a confrontation at the car, and in the course of defending yourself you shot this woman and got scared or something, but denying, denying, denying in the face of these facts just doesn't [unintelligible], Mike.

INV. BURNETTE: It's bad.

OFF. CHAPEL: What's that?

INV. BURNETTE: The situation.

OFF. CHAPEL: Oh, it's beyond bad, Jack. It's fucked up beyond belief. I don't know how to remedy it. You don't - you can't believe what I tell you because of the evidence provided. The only thing I hope is - it's sad. I didn't know I was going to need an alibi or I'd had one.

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, if you wasn't there, you wouldn't have needed an alibi.

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-uh.

INV. BURNETTE: [Unintelligible].

OFF. CHAPEL: And people say I'm there.

INV. BURNETTE: it's the little things you've got to remember, Mike. It's not just people seeing you there. It's the little things like the mustache in the lineup.

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh. That's good. That's INV. BURNETTE: How in the hell would that guy know you didn't have a mustache if he hadn't seen you? You know what I'm saying?

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh. [Unintelligible]. [Lt. Latty returns to the room.] INV. BURNETTE: [Unintelligible]. LT. LATTY: Do what?

INV. BURNETTE: I was talking to Mike.

LT. LATTY: Well, Mike, it appears that Reddy was mistaken. You were at the firehouse. However, you left the firehouse. So your statement about being at the firehouse is right, but you left.

OFF. CHAPEL: I said I left.

LT. LATTY: You left in plenty of time to go over

there.

OFF. CHAPEL: And kill the woman.

LT. LATTY: Exactly.

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, we're at the point, as I see

it, that the big question to be answered now is why. I

don't even think we're at a negotiating point on if. Not right now.

LT. LATTY: Stone were you going to say something?

INV. BURNETTE: Go ahead.

LT. LATTY: Stone says y'all were at the church, as you said, y'all left the church and wound up at the firehouse, were watching the weather, as you said, commenting about the weather, but then that you left. Reddy obviously was mistaken about you not being there at all, but it - you see, Mike, it doesn't change the fact that you were over there because you left. You left in time to do it. You can say, 'I left to go check on the gym, I checked on the gym' or whatever, but by your own statement you left the firehouse.

OFF. CHAPEL: So that makes me guilty.

INV. BURNETTE: No, Mike.

LT. LATTY: It doesn't make you guilty

INV. BURNETTE: Not in and of itself it doesn't make you guilty. In and of itself leaving the firehouse does not make you guilty, but if witnesses -

OFF. CHAPEL: Right, saw a man with no mustache at the light.

INV. BURNETTE: No, not a man with no mustache, but this man here, out of a lineup. Out of a lineup with

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not six pictures like we ordinarily do

OFF. CHAPEL: Eight pictures.

INV. BURNETTE: - but eight because that's as many as I could stick on the page.

OFF. CHAPEL: So I have no alibi, then, and the evidence is dead against me a hundred and ten percent.

LT. LATTY: Yes, it is.

OFF. CHAPEL: I guess there's nothing else to do but just send me to the hill, then. I don't know what else I can say. I don't - I don't know. You don't believe me, the evidence is against me, and I have no alibi. [Unintelligible].

(Inv. Burnette leaves the room.]

LT. LATTY: Come on.

[Lt. Latty and Off. Chapel leave the room.]

LT. LATTY: [From the hallway] More discussion. Looking for the answers.

[Off. Chapel and Lt. Latty return to the room.] OFF. CHAPEL: The answers you want I can't give. I have no alibi. I have no - no nothing but a whole lot of problems right now.

INV. BURNETTE: [From the hallway] John, I'll be back in a minute.

LT. LATTY: All right.

OFF. CHAPEL: They got me leaving the firehouse,

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huh

LT. LATTY: Yeah.

OFF. CHAPEL: - like I said.

LT. LATTY: You see, Mike, it didn't take long to get over there.

OFF. CHAPEL: And do this.

LT. LATTY: This don't take a whole of time. It takes time, but it doesn't take a lot of time. You see, you obviously knew what her routine was, when she went to work. You knew these things. She was expecting a call from you that night. Did you talk to her that night?

OFF. CHAPEL: No.

LT. LATTY: She told people that she was expecting a call from you, that she anticipated meeting with you or receiving a call from you to arrange a meeting so that y'all could further discuss her case, and in particular that you could show her this hundred dollar bill and this band from the money that you had recovered, and compare the serial numbers from the hundred dollar bill to the serial numbers of the money that she still had. Now, obviously, that don't mean anything to us because we understand that - how the serial numbers and the sequence of serial numbers on bills works, but she didn't necessarily. I mean here's a fifty-three-year-old woman whols being told something like this by an officer that

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she trusts and respects. There was no problem. It's a very short distance, as you know, and a very short drive from that firehouse to that location. Reddy really must've panicked. He really must've panicked to say you weren't there at all. I don't know what happened to him. He must've been scared, worried, I don't know. He didn't know what to say. Whatever happened, he was - he got confused apparently. But that doesn't - it doesn't change anything that you were at the firehouse and we thought you weren't. It really doesn't change anything because the - that short distance over there.

OFF. CHAPEL: I see it. I see it.

LT. LATTY: And I could've - I could've come in here and stuck with that story since Reddy had said that, but we continued to pursue it, and I want you to know that. I don't want to - listen, you are not going to fall for a scam. I ain't dumb enough to come in here and think that I can tell you a bunch of B.S. and you're going to buy it on me. I wouldn't try that. There's an awful lot of people I would try it with, but not with you. There's only one way to deal with you and that's tell you the facts because you understand facts, and you know that what I'm telling you is factual information, with the one error, thinking you were not at the firehouse when you were there for a while. The rest of

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it is factual information. I've not told you anything except facts that are documented and have been established and have been checked and double-checked. I've talked to you about the scene, the car, the body, the flat tire, the purse being missing, the receipt in your lap - in her lap, two rounds, the car - the tire being stuck, punctured, the patrol car being seen there by multiple witnesses, the large white male officer with the brown hair. Everything I've told you is facts. What people tell us that she related to them, that she was excited by the prospect of getting some of her money back because Officer Chapel was going to get her some of her money back, and she was excited about that. These people didn't dream this stuff up, Mike. They didn't dream this up. So I've only told you facts as I know them, as we

it's the only

know them. It's the only way I know to - it's the only way I know to talk to you about it. It's the way I do business. There are exceptions to that. You know, you can bring a fifteen-year-old or sixteen-year-old burglar from Buford in here and you can tell him, you know, all kinds of things about fingerprints and stuff. And yeah, you've done it, I've done it, he's going to buy off on it. You're not going to buy off on anything except what we tell you that you know is reasonable. That's what we're doing. We're not trying to bring you in here, kid

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you, deceive you, lie to you. We've brought you in here, and we've looked you square in the face, and told you what we know, how we feel about it, what our analysis of all those facts are, and you, by your own admission, say that you thought you would draw the same conclusions from the evidence that we have, that we've presented to you, that those are your conclusions, because you are capable of analyzing that information, those facts, as well as we are, and that's where it brings us. I've not told you anything but the truth. Jack's not told you anything but

the truth. It's the only way I know to

the truth. It I s the only way I know to - it I s the only way I know to talk to you. I'd like to hear from you what happened. I'd like to know what happened. Only you can tell us how this came to be.

OFF. CHAPEL: I've told you what happened that night, Lieutenant.

LT. LATTY: Mike, we're going to go up there. We've already talked to the officers. We have the information they've given us, even though Reddy forgot, got confused, got scared. I don't know what happened to him. I don't want to put any kind of blame on Reddy, because I'm sure he's as concerned as anybody and is up- and will be as upset as anybody. Already is. We're going to go up there and talk to all those firemen, and we're confident now after our - the interview was

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concluded with Stone, we're confident that they're going that they're going to tell us you were there. Pretty much the same story you've told us. But they're also going to have a pretty good idea of when you left. Very good idea. And you know nobody - it's very rare that anybody knows exactly. You know how that works. But they'll have a good idea, and that's going to be another - another nail, so to speak. And there'll be others. There'll be other things as we go along. You know how it

works.

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. LATTY: I mean a police officer - a police officer involved in something like this, I mean OFF. CHAPEL: Good God almighty.

LT. LATTY: can you imagine the public outcry? Can you imagine the media storm? Can you imagine - can you imagine the hard work that we're going to put into this because we've got to answer those questions like we've never answered them before. We've got to cover all the bases like we never covered them before. It's going to make Kenny Hardwick look like a

OFF. CHAPEL: Yeah.

LT. LATTY: - Easter egg hunt, ain't it?

OFF. CHAPEL: Yeah, it is. I don't know what to

tell you, Lieutenant. I told you what happened that

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night. You got - you got some good evidence. I don't see another conclusion than what you're doing from what you've showed me.

LT. LATTY: I wished Ild've never had - you know what? If Ild've known this - if Ild've had any inkling - if Ild've had any inkling that this was going to come along, Ild've never come back to the detective division. Ild've stayed down there at the Westside precinct. I would've never come back over here. If Ild've had any inkling - if it ever - if I had - of course, you know, we can always go back and say what if and but if, but there's no way, there's no way. I thought them poor boys - you know, I used to sit there when that Hardwick thing was going on, and I'd say, My goodness gracious, you know, as much as I love that work over there, I don't envy them that task, I don't envy them that pressure. If Ild've ever - if Ild've ever had the slightest thought that I'd be sitting here tonight talking to you about a murder, Ild've stayed - Ild've stayed out there.

OFF. CHAPEL: So what -

LT. LATTY: Ild've done whatever I had to do.

OFF. CHAPEL: - case is closed, you got your man now, no other suspects?

LT. LATTY: There're no other suspects at this point. We'll continue to investigate the case. We'll

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investigate all aspects of it as we've continued to investigate Michael. That will continue because you know part of the process is the process of elimination as well as collecting evidence -

OFF. CHAPEL: Right.

LT. LATTY: I mean you know what's involved.

OFF. CHAPEL: Exactly.

LT. LATTY: Got to - got to cover everything, every possibility. You see, Mike, if this had been Joe Blow citizen, if this had been one of the Day boys, you know, held've been sitting over there in jail a long time ago. There wouldn't never been any question. There'd never been anything. We'd just bang, you know, boom, into jail, and that would've been that.

OFF. CHAPEL: But this is - yeah, I know

LT. LATTY: This is you.

OFF. CHAPEL: This is me. This is the department.

LT. LATTY: This is you.

OFF. CHAPEL: This is - I am the department. I was the department, but I -

LT. LATTY: You're wearing that uniform. You're one of us.

OFF. CHAPEL: Was.

LT. LATTY: You're family. Just like family. You know what a fraternity policemen are, you know. Just yeah, I know

This is the department.

I am the department. I

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because of things - you know, it's kind of like combat camaraderie, you know. You know, soldiers in combat, they don't - they don't fight and die for their country. They fight and die for the people that they're - that they're with, you know. It's - there's - there's a kindred spirit there. In the work that we do we tend to be a very close-knit group, and we rely on one another, and we find support in one another, and it's necessary to US. It's a psychological necessity. It's an emotional necessity. That's why we tell each other everything. That's why we tell each other what our problems are and what bothers us because we need that support. So when something like this comes along, it's - it's going it's going to take - it's going to take a while to sink in. It's going to take a while for us to understand. It's going to take a - I'm sure it is for you. It's going to take a while for us to come to grips with what's happened here. It's going to be long-term. And I think it's - I think it would be so important - I think it is so important that you tell us, that you tell us what happened, that you tell us how these things came to be. There might be somebody else out there whols - whols treading this same path that you've trod, that - that things may be beginning to go wrong for. They may they may - they may can learn from your experience. But

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you know, Mike, if you don't - if you don't tell us what happened, if you don't help us understand what happened and the events that led to this, everybody's going to draw their own conclusions.

OFF. CHAPEL: I think we already have. I'm fried. I mean I - I couldn't be more fucked than I am now. That's the most - that is overwhelming evidence. All I've got is what I know happened, and that's not going to do me any good. I don't - I have no alibi. I have nothing, you know. I mean -

LT. LATTY: Mike, you know, that when the public becomes aware of this -

OFF. CHAPEL: Oh. yeah.

they're going to really come out of

LT. LATTY: - they're going to really come out of the woodwork then. They're going to really come out of the woodwork, and we talked about that as we sat down on the side of the road, and we tried our best to be secretive about it and not - not let those traffic officers out there - they'd come up and ask us, 'Y'all getting more witnesses that saw the patrol car down here? Who in the world was - who in the world was the officer down here?' They were hearing it, too. I mean they were the ones who were getting the first information. You heard it

OFF. CHAPEL: I heard it, yeah. I heard it, too,

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yeah.

LT. LATTY: And we would sit there and, you know, trying to make sure that nobody overheard us because we didn't want this to get out. We wanted to be wrong. The night that - late Friday night, early Saturday morning after we discovered her body, and we

and these things

it was - we were almost in

began to come out, it was - it was - we were almost in shock. We called Chief White at home at two-thirty in the morning and got him up here, and we said - you know, because we had to tell him these things. It was - and people just sat around. You couldn't believe it. It was like a - it was worse than a wake. It was worse than a wake. And we sat around, and so we'd talk about these things, and we'd say there's got to be another answer, and we kept holding out that hope there was another answer. We didn't want to believe it. We didn't want to believe it. It's one time I didn't want to believe it.

and

It's one time I wanted to see all this go away and - and everybody be wrong. So we sat out there and talked about

it, and you realize with all these people - some of these people we had to go hunt. They were afraid to come forward for various reasons, for obvious reasons. And we said, you know, if we get to the point - this was [unintelligible] - if we get to the point to where we charge him for this, they're going to come from everywhere, because based on just the brief time we were up there we just found all kinds of people that saw what went on there. And, of course, that was the first thing I said when I got up there Friday morning. I'm sitting there, and I'm looking at this car sitting there, and this is Peachtree Industrial Boulevard, and, sure, it's a two-way road, and it's Buford, but the first thought that came to my mind was, as close as that car is to the road, road check, tons of evidence, got to be. That close to the road, somebody saw it. I was surprised at how heavy the traffic on that road was because when we first began - you saw me out there that night in the wind trying to hold on to my note pad, trying to count them cars going northbound and southbound. I couldn't keep up with it. I finally gave up. I gave up particularly when the witnesses started crowding in there at the end, and I had to interview about three in a row, but there's a tremendous volume of traffic on that road. It's surprising. Now, that was a Friday night, and it wasn't quite as heavy as the week nights, but there was a lot of traffic on that road, and we knew that that probably was going to be the key to it right there, right then. Just get these traffic people up there and start stopping them cars, and then we were able to narrow the time down to where - you know, the narrower the time frame, the -

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you know, the better it works. And we were able to narrow it down right off because here come a fellow that was very credible who says, 'We were down this road right here last night to mail my taxes.' See, that was another thing. It was tax day. Everybody remembered it being tax day. I mean, I did. And he says, 'I went down this road, me and my wife, a little after nine. We didn't notice anything here. That car was not there.' He came up to the scene while the car was still there Friday morning. He said, 'We came back just - right around ten, just after ten o'clock, and the car was sitting there. That car was sitting there just like it is now with a flat tire, and my wife and I talked about coming back and checking, and then she said, no, you better not do that., And he said, 'Well, there may be something wrong because the car's left down here so close to the road.' She said, 'Ah, let's don't get -1 you know, 'let's don't get into that,' so they went on. Right there. Boom. Bam. We knew this happened between nine and ten o'clock. We were already down to that narrow a time frame. Then it narrowed and narrowed and narrowed. And with a road check it narrowed down to a matter of minutes. And these witnesses are going to continue to come forward. There ain't no doubt in my mind about that.

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Mike, it'll help you to talk about it. It'll help you to talk about it. Any way you go, any way you go it's going to be extremely difficult, more difficult than you or I can imagine at this point. But if you bottle this up inside of you, if you deny it, continue to deny it, it's going to get worse and worse and worse. You're human. Just like everybody else, you're human. It's hard to - it's hard to admit our humanity. It's hard to confront our weaknesses and our flaws in character in this business. It's hard for somebody like you because all your life has been devoted to doing all these things. It's not - it's not masculine, it's not manly to realize that we need people, that we need help, that we need that we need support, that we need understanding, but we do. I do, you do, everybody does. It's not easy to acknowledge that - that we're imperfect, that we're inherently sinful, if you will, but we are. But that's what you need to do. That's the first step in recovery of the rest of your life. You can deny this, you can fight it, you can go through the system, you can say 'I'm a man, I'll take whatever comes my way. If I have to go - if I have to go to the big house, I'll go to the big house. If I have to kick butts, I'll kick butts. It ain't no problem with me,, and maybe survive and look down the road for parole or whatever happens. But the

key thing, the most important thing is what happens to you. You're still a relatively young man. There's a lot here to salvage. But you got to - the first thing you got to do is overcome that denial. You got to confront, you got to face what really happened, what's really happening to you. And you're probably sitting there right now saying, 'I can't believe this is happening,' but it is happening. It has happened. We cannot go back and change history. There are all kinds of things in all of our lives we wish we could go back and do differently, we wish we could go back and go another - take another road, make another decision, but we can't. That's passed. What we have to do is we have to confront where we are now. We have to say, 'Where am I, what can I salvage, where can I begin that salvage of my life and what's left of my life.' You can do that. I don't believe - I Ive never believed that to deny it and to lay the blame somewhere else is the solution and answer to the problem. I've never believed that. I believe that less and less the older I get and the more experience I gain. And I've learned that I have to face who I am and what I am, and I have to learn from those things, and the mistakes I make, and I have to try to do better tomorrow than I did yesterday, but in order for me to do that, and to do that successfully, I have to face the mistakes that

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I made yesterday and the flaws that I know I have, because I have them. We all do. We hope that we go through life without ever making a mistake that leads us to something this - this horrible, but sometimes things get out of control, things get beyond our control, and we find ourselves in a situation we could never have imagined a short time ago.

OFF. CHAPEL: Yeah. That's a fact.

LT. LATTY: It may not make sense to you right now as you - as all this races through your mind, but it will probably be easier on your family, for the people who love you and care about you the most in the long run if they know what happened. They're going - they're going to be - they're going to be confronted with this doubt about what happened. They're not going to want to believe it. We didn't want to believe it. Think how much your folks are not going to want to believe it. And you're going to put them through all that turmoil.

OFF. CHAPEL: Just the fact that I don't believe it is enough right there.

LT. LATTY: Mike, it's not a matter of not believing it. It's a matter of knowing what the evidence says. It's a matter of knowing what happened.shows.

OFF. CHAPEL: Knowing

knowing what the evidence

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LT. LATTY: Exactly right. You know what happened there. You know ever detail of what happened. We have to piece it together, bits and pieces, a little here, a little there. It takes time. It takes skill in

interpretation and analysis.

Interpretation and analysis. It takes time. But you've seen it happen time and time again. You've seen it

unfold time and time again.unfold time and time again. Over time it comes together. This has come together. Regardless of how I felt about it or Jack felt about it or anybody else, it's come together, and here we are, and here you are. It's not going to go away. It's going to grow worse day by day as we come to the realization of just what has happened here, as it begins to sink in, as we see the repercussions of it. There'll be different repercussions for different people, most of all for you, of course.

We so need to know how this happened. You need to tell us how this happened. You need to do it for your own peace of mind, to deal with what you've got to deal with in the days to come.

For your salvation, you've got to do it. You've gone about as you,'ve - you've -you've fallen to about the lowest point a man can fall in your profession and your standing -

OFF. CHAPEL: Absolutely. [Unintelligible]

LT. LATTY: Only place you can look is up. Only place you can start going is up. It's up to you to do

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that know.

OFF. CHAPEL: Lieutenant, I've told you what I

LT. LATTY: You've told me what you wished had happened.

OFF. CHAPEL: Okay.

LT. LATTY: We've all had regrets.

OFF. CHAPEL: Yeah, and I do too.

LT. IATTY: We've all had regrets. We've all been in that place where we say, 'Gosh, [unintelligible], I wished I hadn't've done that. I wished I hadn't've said that. I wished I hadn't've put myself in that position.' We've all been there. I've certainly never been in the position you are, thankfully.

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. LATTY: But I know you're sitting there saying, thinking, I wish it was some other way, I wish Ild've gone some other way, I wish Ild've made another choice, I wish Ild've made another decision. But you didn't. This is the decision you made. This is the decision you've got to live with the rest of your life. This is the decision that we all have to live with the rest of our careers and the rest of our lives, because I guarantee you Jack Burnette and other people, Brian Reddy, John Stone, those people who love you so, are

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never going to recover from this. They're never going to recover from the hurt and the disappointment and the shock of this having happened. But we go on in life. Tell me what happened.

OFF. CHAPEL: The storm came, I went to the fire station, I went to my calls. That's the best I can do. You've got that, and all I've got is shit. I don't know you don't believe me (unintelligible].

what else - you don't believe me (unintelligible].

LT. LATTY: When did you leave the Marine Corps? What happened?

OFF. CHAPEL: I was still in SWAT here. I was in the reserves. It was taking up too much time. The Marines was taking too much SWAT time here. It was time to get out.

LT. LATTY: How much active duty time did you have?

OFF. CHAPEL: It was roughly about two years, a little less.

LT. IATTY: How come you got out of active duty?

OFF. CHAPEL: That was the program I signed on, two to four.

LT. LATTY: To go into reserves?

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. IATTY: What was your MOA?

OFF. CHAPEL: Everything from an 03 grunt to a

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jackneck, go get them broncos in a few weeks.

LT. LATTY: How old are your kids?

OFF. CHAPEL: Six and ten - six and nine.

LT. LATTY: Boy and a girl?

OFF. CHAPEL: [Nodding yes]

LT. LATTY: Which is oldest?

OFF. CHAPEL: The little - the boy.

LT. LATTY: He's ten?

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. LATTY: Seems to me like that'd be the hardest part of all. I got three of my own. Love them more than anything.

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. LATTY: What are you going to say to them?

OFF. CHAPEL: I don't know.

LT. LATTY: What do you want for them? What do you want? What do you want their lives to be from here on?

OFF. CHAPEL., From here on? Well, it's no more normal, that's for damn sure, until I can figure something with this. I don't know.

LT. LATTY: Are they going to always have to wonder?

OFF. CHAPEL: No, because I'm going to - I'm going to clear my name on this regardless of what you got

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on that paper. The truth's out there.

LT. LATTY: Yes, it is. We've been busy collecting it, and we've been busy documenting it.

OFF. CHAPEL: I've never been interrogated before.

LT. LATTY: Well, at least it's benevolent. Of course, it'd take a whole lot more than me to do anything else to you, wouldn't it?

OFF. CHAPEL: [Unintelligible]

LT. LATTY: All I'm trying to do is reason with you, Mike.

OFF. CHAPEL: I know you are.

LT. LATTY: I Im not trying to - I Im not trying to hoodwink you. I don't think I can. I'm not trying to -

We've not lied to you.

I'm certainly not lying to you. We've not lied to you.

We ain't said anything to you in here tonight that wasn't a fact with the one - the one - that one exception where a mistake was made.

OFF. CHAPEL: I understand.

LT. LATTY: And I cleared that up with you as soon as I found it out.

OFF. CHAPEL: I understand you're reacting to your evidence if you have it, and I understand that. I understand that. I'm just numb from - because I know what happened, and what you have does not - didn't include me. What the circumstances are, they didn't that one exception

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include me. What a way to end a career.

LT. LATTY: What did you think of her when you dealt with her? What did you think of her?

OFF. CHAPEL: She was a nut.

LT. LATTY: In what way?

OFF. CHAPEL: Delusionary. She sat there telling me that somebody broke into her house while - him sitting there, and then turn around and say that he did it and just was in her own little world.

LT. LATTY: What did you think of him, Michael?

OFF. CHAPEL: Yeah, Michael. That he was a what he - what he appaered to be, a little spacehead doper.

LT. LATTY: Were you hoping to develop him so that you could get some of those people around him? I know you worked a lot of drug cases.

OFF. CHAPEL: I was just - I just stroked him like I stroked anybody else. That's why it didn't set in my mind anything different. The way I acted with them, I acted with anybody else on the street. Anybody - you

know, I did nothing out of the ordinary. [Inv. Burnette returns to the room.] INV. BURNETTE: Where are we at?

LT. LATTY: We're just chitchatting.

INV. BURNETTE: Is that yours?

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OFF. CHAPEL: That's mine, yeah. It's empty.

LT. IATTY: Just going back over it, trying to

OFF. CHAPEL: [Unintelligible]

LT. LATTY:

LT. LATTY: - trying to get him to tell me what happened there, help me understand it, help all of us understand it.

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, do you have any clothes out in your car?

OFF. CHAPEL: No.

INV. BURNETTE: Okay.

OFF. CHAPEL: So am I going to jail tonight?

INV. BURNETTE: As of this time you're under arrest for murder and armed robbery.

OFF. CHAPEL: No bond, right?

INV. BURNETTE: (No verbal response] Let me see if I can make some arrangements.

[Inv. Burnette leaves the room.]

OFF. CHAPEL: Can we get me some clothes to go in?

LT. LATTY: Yeah, that's what we're going to do.

OFF. CHAPEL: Because I don't want to shame the department any more than this.

LT. IATTY: What are you thinking about? What's going through your mind?

OFF. CHAPEL: That I'm going to have to go over there and punch out a deputy about - square in the jaws

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so I can get on lockdown so I don't end up really being charged with a good legit murder charge from killing some son-of-a-bitch over there. That's what I'm really thinking about.

LT. LATTY: Well, I don't imagine they'll put you in the general population.

OFF. CHAPEL: [Unintelligible]

LT. LATTY: I'm sure there'll be some arrangements made for that. You're not being thrown away, Mike.

OFF. CHAPEL: Yes, I am, Lieutenant. I [unintelligible] -

LT. LATTY: You're not being thrown away.

OFF. CHAPEL: I am shit [unintelligible]. Tried and convicted.

LT. LATTY: We plan to go out this morning and talk to your folks, let them know in person where you are. We want to show them, you, and particularly them, that courtesy. It's hard news any way you present it, but -

OFF. CHAPEL: Better take the [unintelligible] with you. It's going to kill Mama.

LT. LATTY: Well, we'll let your daddy or somebody tell her if you think it'll affect her that way. How old is she?

OFF. CHAPEL: Fifty-three. My brother's

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accusations on the rape and Greg's federal trial on brutality just about did her in. This is going to put her in the grave.

(Inv. Burnette returns to the room.]

INV. BURNETTE: Mike, what's your locker number at the precinct?

OFF. CHAPEL: Oh, God, Jack, let me think now. To the left of the silver lock, the silver lock, to the left of it, the two - the two - the two preceding it.

INV. BURNETTE: Do what now?

OFF. CHAPEL: Coming in from the captain's of f ice

INV. BURNETTE: Yeah.

OFF. CHAPEL:

walking up the right side of the

locker room -

INV. BURNETTE: Yeah. Against the wall?

OFF. CHAPEL: No, in the middle row.

INV. BURNETTE: Middle row.

OFF. CHAPEL: There's a - I'm right in the middle

of the locker room. There's - there's deer antlers in

one, there's - all around, those are all my lockers, all

four of them.

INV. BURNETTE: Which four?

OFF. CHAPEL: Huh?

INV. BURNETTE: Which four, Mike?

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LT. LATTY: Which four?

OFF. CHAPEL: They're in the middle, Jack.

INV. BURNETTE: Have they got locks on them?

OFF. CHAPEL: No, just one of them does, and I don't even think it's locked.

INV. BURNETTE: What kind? Is it a padlock or what?

OFF. CHAPEL: Yeah, it's a padlock, and - I think it's unlocked. There's a big yellow and black gym bag

there. It's got workout clothes in there.

INV. BURNETTE: Does Rooster know which four it is?

OFF. CHAPEL: Yes, he does.

INV. BURNETTE: Okay.

[Inv. Burnette leaves the room.]

OFF. CHAPEL: No bond.

LT. LATTY: No. Unless a superior court judge in a hearing grants it.

OFF. CHAPEL: A month from now.

LT. LATTY: .38 caliber.

OFF. CHAPEL: That's what I hear.

LT. LATTY: Semi-wadcutter, end loading. Same kind of stuff that's issued at every range. They went completely through her head. Both of them exited. Tore into the car. Pretty potent little rounds. One of them

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near contact, and the other we couldn't quite determine because - probably because of hair and various things.

Yesterday I spoke to some kids at Summerour Middle School. It was already arranged, and I went down and did it. They were writing mystery stories and we was talking about clues, and I go down and talk to them about the clues, and, of course, I simplified it, you know, where they can understand it, and I talked to them about these things. A little girl raised her hand, and she said, 'What's the most difficult case you've ever worked?' And, of course, I told her about, you know, a child abuse case where the little boy was the victim and he was about the age of my son and how I identified with it. If I'm ever asked that question again, I'll say it was the night that I had to sit and listen to my dear friend Jack Burnette tell our colleague, respected colleague, Mike Chapel, he's under arrest for murder and armed robbery. I probably won't tell them that, but that's certainly it. I can't think of anything that would surpass it. You know, we were told that you did the Longhorn.

OFF. CHAPEL: Yeah, I was told that, too. I guess I did that now.

LT. LATTY: Well, we certainly shrugged it off and laughed about it and said what a dastardly thing to say before, but it'll sure be looked at anew.

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OFF. CHAPEL: I wouldn't expect nothing less.

LT. LATTY: You know, if somebody had come up two weeks ago and said to me those kind of things about you, theyldlve had me to fight, theyldlve had to whip me. Nothing used to make me madder than people complaining on my officers when they was out there busting their butts and people's out there complaining, griping, you know, for silly, nonsensical things. And, of course, you have to listen to it, see what they got to say, got to look into it, but, boy, I never appreciated that. It's like somebody, you know, accusing some of my family of doing something. Mike, I wish you'd do one thing -

OFF. CHAPEL: [Unintelligible] to admit to murder,and I can't do that.

LT. LATTY: Oh. Well, yeah, I do want you to do that, but this is something personal. As you think about these things in the days to come and evaluate these things, I want you to consider your relationship to God.

OFF. CHAPEL: I want to say he hates me.

LT. LATTY: No. He loves you. He loves us all. And I don't say that carelessly. I don't say that trying to elicit anything from you. I hope you'll think about that, because ultimately there's who we have to give the answer to. Ultimately, that's who we have to give account to. What happens here is almost trivial compared

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to that. But He loves you, He'll forgive you, He'll help you, and you need that.

OFF. CHAPEL: No, I need an alibi and a good witness.

LT. LATTY: That's the standard by which I evaluate my life and the decisions I make and what my life is about, the standard that's - that's been laid out for us by the scriptures. It addresses all these problems. There's a remedy for - there's a remedy for whatever we've done. We seek it and want it.

Tape 3 - State's Exhibit 8

LT. LATTY: - when I was talking about that

you're valuable, and there's a lot - there's a lot of your life that's yet salvageable, but only if you seek to do it and only if you look to the Lord for that. He can salvage you, whatever happens from here on out, and He will if that's what you want. Now, I'm going to pray to that end. Whatever you - whatever you think of me as we leave here tonight and whatever you think of me in the days to come as I endeavor to assist in bringing this case to a conclusion and helping to provide the evidence and the facts that we can uncover to the prosecutors, I'm going to be remembering you, asking the Lord to - to touch you and to - to help you. It's up to you to receive or reject that. Did you go to church as a kid,

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Sunday school?

OFF. CHAPEL: [Noading yes]

LT. LATTY: You was born in Atlanta, wasn't you?

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. LATTY: Is that where you grew up? Atlanta,

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. LATTY: Is that where you grew up? Atla

DeKalb County?

OFF. CHAPEL: Yeah.

LT. LATTY: Did you ever go to vacation Bible school?

OFF. CHAPEL: [Shakes head no]

LT. LATTY: They never got you there when you was a little guy?

OFF. CHAPEL: I don't think so. I don't

LT. LATTY: What do you think of that? You don't buy into it?

OFF. CHAPEL: What, vacation Bible school?

LT. LATTY: Christianity, religion.

OFF. CHAPEL: Everybody needs to

LT. LATTY: God, the devil.

OFF. CHAPEL: Everybody needs to believe in something.

LT. LATTY: What do you believe in?

OFF. CHAPEL: I believe things can get all fucked up.

LT. LATTY: Your own strength? Your own

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there.

OFF. CHAPEL: I believe there's a great spirit up

[Lt. Latty hands Off. Chapel sandals and jumpsuit.)

LT. LATTY: I'll gather all this stuff up for you. If you want to put it out there, we'll find something to put them in.

OFF. CHAPEL: You can hang on to this too. I don't need that at the jail. [Unintelligible]

LT. LATTY: You go ahead [unintelligible]

OFF. CHAPEL: Well, I'm going to tell you something right now.

LT. LATTY: What's that?

OFF. CHAPEL: You can do what you see fit with it. In the trunk of my car there's a gun case with an M16 in there that I had during - for urban upheaval that may have [unintelligible], and I've had it for years.

LT. LATTY: Semi-automatic?

OFF. CHAPEL: Negative.

LT. LATTY: Fully?

OFF. CHAPEL: Fully.

LT. LATTY: You licensed? You got a license?

OFF. CHAPEL: No, but it was - it was just there for home defense, and I've had it for years, and

LT. LATTY: Where did you get it?

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FF. CHAPEL: Oh, God, I got it - I got it off a guy a long time ago. It's in a camouflage gun case.

LT. LATTY: We'll put it in the property room.

OFF. CHAPEL: I could've said it was property

found (unintelligible] -

LT. LATTY: Yeah. What about your wallet and all.

Is it in here?

OFF. CHAPEL: It's in my briefcase in the car.

That was just a call [unintelligible]. In my briefcase there's a bank deposit bag with today's receipts - with this week's receipts for the gym.

LT. LATTY: Uh-huh.

OFF. CHAPEL: Cash and checks.

LT. LATTY: Give it to Erin?

OFF. CHAPEL: If you would. My briefcase has got papers in it also. You can put that in there also.

LT. LATTY: Okay. Let's get this stuff.

OFF. CHAPEL: They won't let me have it. I'll take it, though. [Unintelligible] cigarettes.

LT. LATTY: Just have a seat there, Mike, if you would, and we'll see what the next step in the process is here. How many rounds you got for the M16? You got you got a pretty good many (unintelligible]?

OFF. CHAPEL: Let's just put it this way. If a verdict came out that broke bad urban upheaval, we

with

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could've -

LT. LATTY: You could've lasted a while?

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh. At least six or seven mags.

LT. LATTY: Are they with it?

It's self-contained.

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh. It's self-contained.Everything's in there.

LT. LATTY: M16. I've fired a few rounds w them things.

OFF. CHAPEL: It was - I figure, hell, I'm fired a few rounds with

OFF. CHAPEL: It was - I figure, hell, I'm charged with - to quote Stone, Sharon Stone, when will they charge me with murder for smoking in the building?

LT. LATTY: Uh-huh.

OFF. CHAPEL: I guess I don't work here no more,

OFF. CHAPEL: If your investigation continues,and I hope it does -

LT. LATTY: Well, it certainly will. We'll talk to all those people. We'll get those firemen. I think they're due in today. We'll talk to the firemen. We'll talk to - we'll locate as many of those people as we can, you know, at the gym, and Wright - is it Blan?

OFF. CHAPEL: Wright Blan, Blan Wright. I can't remember which one r which one it is. Either way.

LT. LATTY: Well, we'll check him. We'll talk ell, we'll check - we'll talk with we'll be talking with everybody in the world we can.

OFF. CHAPEL: Well, you're going to make the marshall of Sugar Hill happy.

LT. LATTY: I ain't scared of the marshall of Sugar Hill. He was - that's who we thought to begin with. When we first started getting information on a patrol car, a sheriff's car, a law enforcement vehicle, that's the first thing that come to mind. We interviewed him early on and covered that. Of course, the people started describing the car from time to time in greater detail, and we very quickly realized that it was one of ours. You still don't recall, Mike, where you checked run that car, the P-K-K-2-2-8, the Honda, 177 Honda? You still can't remember that one?

OFF. CHAPEL: [Shakes head no]

LT. LATTY: That was at eight-twenty. We found the woman that the car was registered to and she had sold it to what is it, R. C. Motors. R. C. Motors. Is there an R. C. Used Cars?

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh, on Lee Street.

LT. LATTY: Yeah, and she'd sold it to them, and they in turn had sold it, she said, to somebody, she didn't know who. She had seen the car being driven around town by two white males, with two white males in it. But you ran a 1028 on that tag at eight-twenty.

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That must've been just before you got to the church sometime. Is your notepad in the car, Mike?

OFF. CHAPEL: Sir?

LT. LATTY: Your notes, your notepad in the car?

OFF. CHAPEL: Clipboard under the log sheet.

LT. LATTY: How many brothers you got? Two?

OFF. CHAPEL: Two.

LT. LATTY: You the oldest, youngest, what?

OFF. CHAPEL: I'm the oldest.

LT. LATTY: Sisters?

OFF. CHAPEL: [Shakes head no]

LT. LATTY: Just three of you boys?

OFF. CHAPEL: [No response]

LT. LATTY: Mike, is there anything we can do for you, tell your folks, do for your folks?

OFF. CHAPEL: No, not a thing. [Unintelligible]

bunch of others, I bunch of others, I guess.

LT. LATTY: Mike, can you remember, do you have any idea what time you left the fire station that night?

OFF. CHAPEL: Lieutenant -

LT. LATTY: The call - the call was at nine fifty-six.

OFF. CHAPEL: Okay.

LT. LATTY: Four minutes till ten.

OFF. CHAPEL: I hadn't been gone long. I had time

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to get from the fire station to Lee Street, which is what, two minutes maximum, [unintelligible] car probably another two minutes, going to there, backing out, somewhere between nine - nine thirty-five, nine fortyfive, because I hadn't been gone - well, probably closer to nine-thirty because I think I was at the gym maybe five minutes max.

LT. LATTY: And who do you say you think was at the gym? Blan?

OFF. CHAPEL: I believe - I believe Blan was there that night and Van.

LT. LATTY: Blan. Is that spelled B-1-a-n?

OFF. CHAPEL: B-1-a-n. Yeah.

LT. LATTY: Blan Wright.

OFF. CHAPEL: Enjoy talking to him, you will.

LT. LATTY: Why is that?

OFF. CHAPEL: Because he's a 24.

LT. LATTY: He's a 24? Who’s the other fellow?

OFF. CHAPEL: Van Parker.

LT. LATTY: Van, V-a-n, Parker?

OFF. CHAPEL: V-a-n. Yeah, a kid from up Hoschton way.

I believe Blan was

LT. LATTY: So the best you can recall, you think

it may have been nine-thirty - what time?

have been nine-thirty - what time?

OFF. CHAPEL: The best I can recall.

136

LT. LATTY: That you left the firehouse. The

firehouse, 23 to Lee, got the call - you got the call around that time?

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. LATTY: Were you at the you

OFF. CHAPEL: I don't -can you recall if was at the gum yet or not when you

LT. LATTY: was at the gum yet or not when you got the call?

OFF. CHAPEL: I don't remember.

LT. IATTY: Okay.

OFF. CHAPEL: I don't - I really don't remember.

LT. LATTY: You went from the gym to the call.

OFF. CHAPEL: Yeah.

LT. LATTY: And what route did you say you went from the gym to the call or did you say?

OFF. CHAPEL: Okay. Let's see. I had to go going to Pebblebrook, I'd go Moreno to Hill, Hill to 23 and on 23. It may have been a little bit slow up there because it was raining hard when I left the firehouse. [Unintelligible] Joe Jackson just raped somebody, and he got a police escort [unintelligible]-

LT. LATTY: Well, we didn't think - we didn't think you'd give us any trouble -

OFF. CHAPEL: Never would, especially this kind of

137

trouble.

LT. LATTY: We wanted to be - we - as a matter of fact Chief White sent everybody in detectives home a little early tonight to give you some privacy when you came in here, so we were -

OFF. CHAPEL: [Unintelligible]

LT. LATTY: - we were hoping to do what little we could do considering what we're dealing with. I think that's only reasonable.

OFF. CHAPEL: I appreciate it.

LT. LATTY: Don't make a spectacle. You know, it'll be a big enough spectacle as it is without us contributing to it any more than we can help. Yeah, I remember all the discussions we used to have in passing of working together, working Buford together. I always looked forward to that. It just never worked out. I got sent down to Westside, and I - I decided it was to my benefit to stay where I was sent, you know, and not try to kick up any more dust than I already had, and so I just stayed there, but I did hope at some point that down the road to get - get up there, because I like it up there. It's close to home, you know. It's convenient, and I like the people up there and I like what goes on up there. The rest of the county's done gone too cosmopolitan, you know.

138

OFF. CHAPEL: Uh-huh.

LT. LATTY: Buford kind of still has that small town - small southern town air about it, you know. It' kind of like policing in a small town but having all the benefits and resources, you know, of a big department. always liked working up there. If you ever win those people's confidence, man, they'll tell you anything. They'll do anything for you. A lot of them will.

OFF. CHAPEL: And sometimes you hold on too tight to them, though.

LT. LATTY: Yeah, you can get - it's always a danger, I guess, with informants, falling in love with them. You know, liking them, you know. Heck, I had that problem. There was a couple people up there that were just - you know, just - just the worst kind of dirt-bags, but you couldn't help but like the sons-of-guns, you know. They were - they had personalities, and they had - they had certain qualities, even though they were just dirt-bags. And you had to be real careful. You'd find yourself believing them too much or doing too much of a favor for them. I had one old boy up there used to - I used to go see him from time to time. Went up there one Christmas, and he was a darn good - I mean he told me everything. He was just - you know, he had felony convictions, and he was still into stuff. I knew he was. But held tell me stuff, you know, and it was good information. And I went up there one time and there he was with all of his little snotty-nosed kids, and there wasn't a thing to eat in the house. I whipped out my wallet, you know, and give him some money to go buy them some groceries.

OFF. CHAPEL: Yeah, I've paid a light bill or two.

LT. LATTY: Yeah. I couldn't - I couldn't sit there and watch them little kids not have something to eat. Of course, I knew held drunk it up or spent it on dope or something or whores or something, you know, but it wasn't the kids' fault. They couldn't help it. They were hungry. But that's the way it goes, I guess. That's the nature of them. And that's just the nature of doing what's right, I guess.

OFF. CHAPEL: Is this standard jailhouse?

LT. IATTY: It must be. I don't know. I guess that's where it come from. I don't know where else it'd

come from. It's a little warm in here.

OFF. CHAPEL: Yeah. Downright hot.

LT. LATTY: Let me check and see what's happening,Mike. I'll be right back and let you know.

OFF. CHAPEL: I'll wait here.

LT. LATTY: All right.

[Lt. Latty leaves the room.]

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guess.

[Extended pause]

[Capt. Davis enters the room.]

CAPT. DAVIS: Hey, Mike.

OFF. CHAPEL: Captain.

CAPT. DAVIS: You okay?

OFF. CHAPEL: About as well as can be expected, I

CAPT. DAVIS: I hate it. I really do.

OFF. CHAPEL: No more than I. No more than I.

CAPT. DAVIS: I know we worked hard together up there. Of course, I do hope you know that I'll try my

best to help you.

OFF. CHAPEL: From what they tell me, there's no help for me. I have no alibi.

CAPT. DAVIS: No, but I - you know I wouldn't had it be anything but right. You know that.

OFF. CHAPEL: I know that, [unintelligible].

CAPT. DAVIS: Can you help me help some other people not get in your position? Can you do that?

OFF. CHAPEL: I can't - I can't admit to something I didn't do. I'm going to have to - I got to fight this because I know what happened, and I was not there, so I cannot admit to something I didn't do. I cannot. I'll have to fight this somehow, some way, I'll have to exonerate, but I cannot.

14 1

CAPT. DAVIS: Well, of course, I know you know me.

OFF. CHAPEL: I know [unintelligible]

CAPT. DAVIS: And if

CAPT. DAVIS: And if I thought you didn't do it,if there was any way in the world that I thought you didn't do it, you know what

OFF. CHAPEL: I know didn't do it, you know what I'd say.

OFF. CHAPEL: I know you would, but there's overwhelming evidence that I did.

CAPT. DAVIS: Well, I just wanted to come in and

OFF. CHAPEL: Appreciate that.

CAPT. DAVIS: - and tell you I'm here and I'll be thinking about you and before they take you on down, you know - they'll be taking you on in a little while. If you decide that you can help me help some other people, ask for me.

OFF. CHAPEL: Yes, sir.

CAPT. DAVIS: And I wish you would do that, and you know what I mean. How about helping me, okay?

OFF. CHAPEL: Yes, sir.

[Capt. Davis leaves the room.]

(Extended pause]

(An officer enters room.]

OFFICER: You mind standing up for me? Put your hands right back here [unintelligible]

OFF. CHAPEL: [Unintelligible]

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OFFICER: Uh-huh. Hold on (unintelligible]. Can you move your hand there? I'm going to take these things

off and -

OFF. CHAPEL: Not really.

OFFICER: If I can get them off and get them on better.

OFF. CHAPEL: Does that help?

OFFICER: If you can hold it right there just for a second. Got you.All right. Let's try it again and see if we can make it a little easier.

OFF. CHAPEL: Okay.

OFFICER: Can you let your wrist down.

OFF. CHAPEL: (Unintelligible)

OFFICER: Okay.

(Officer Chapel was escorted from the room.]

-000-

143

C E R T I F I C A T E

G E 0 R G I A

GWINNETT COUNTY

I, Mary E. Atkinson, Official Court Reporter for the Superior Court of Gwinnett County, Division 6, do hereby certify that the foregoing 143 pages constitute to the best of my knowledge and ability a complete and correct transcript of the audible portions of the videotaped statement of Michael Harold Chapel played in open court January 25 and January 26, 1995, in the matter of the State of Georgia v. Michael Harold Chapel, 93-B-1818-6.

This certification is expressly withdrawn and denied upon disassembly, photocopying or duplication in any manner or upon certification of the foregoing transcript or any part thereof including exhibits, if any, by any person or entity other than by the undersigned official certified court reporter.

Witness my hand and official seal this the lst day

of August 1995.

Mary E. son

Certified Cour-t Reporter #B-953

144